Koni Yellow PN's Bilstein #'s
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:18 am
Use this information at your own risk... I take no responsibility for any failures when doing this modification to your vehicle. You are fitting a part to the car that was not intended for it so the chance of some issue is always present.
If you can find them J-body Inserts that you can use in a regular front strut housing for a Beretta with bushing I designed or something else to space it properly.
DISCONTINUED
P/N# 8641-1454 Sport
A second Option that is known to work thanks to the J-body guys
-2nd gen Mitsubishi Eclipse (90-94) inserts can also be used. They are 15mm shorter and have more travel than the 3rd gen inserts. The only real reason for using these would be for more overall suspension travel.
-PN#8641-1231Sport
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Saab 900 94-98 Rear Shocks that can be adapted to 94 and older rear suspension. All you need to do is drill out the upper mount to accept a 14mm bolt vs the 12mm that is on the stock shocks.
P/N# 8041-1191 Sport
Optional Bilstein Shock
Bilstein PN F4-BE5-2538-H0
Saab 900 94-98
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Once again another shock that fits the 95+ but was discontinued so if you can find this PN somewhere see if they still have any.
DISCONTINUED
KONI 8041-1202SPORT Ford Thunderbird
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I have a open e-mail with them asking if there is any other option that is close to that setup. I may try to pick up some that are on Amazon listed as in stock somewhere.
To use the Thunderbird shocks above you will need to purchase some cheap aftermarket shocks they come with a lower bracket to mount them. Just narrow the collar on the shock by a tiny amount to fit this width and your good to go. Only difference between the Saab's and these Thunderbird ones is the valving is a bit more aggressive and the lower mount is a 14mm bolt vs a 10mm bolt.
Lower bushing is also 41mm wide vs 36mm. Hence the need to narrow it to fit the bracket.
Procedure for front strut build is below, I have more photos towards the end of the thread with my custom bushings I made.
Length numbers for each shock.
87-94 Beretta Rear Shocks, 21.73" Extended, 13.58" Compressed.
95-96 Beretta Rear Shocks 18.62" Extended, 12.13" Compressed.
KYB 94-98 Saab Rear Shocks 21.42" Extended, 13.39" Compressed.
Bilstein 94-98 Saab Rear Shocks 21 15/16" Extended, 14" Compressed.
Koni 94-98 Saab Rear Shocks 21 15/16" Extended, 13.25" Compressed.
Koni 1989-97 Thunderbird/Cougar Rear Shocks 19.21" Extended 11.85 Compressed
Info regarding using Saab 900 shock on 95-96, for a 95-96 fitment you will have a shock that is 3.3" longer at full extension, and 1.87-1.12" longer at full compression depending on which shock you use... I'm still unsure of what length you NEED to ensure you do not bottom out the shock before the factory bump stops. My first attempt with Saab Konis is about 1" less of travel. I HAD 3 1/8" of travel with the KYB's and I now have 2" of travel with the Koni's.(Shock will bottom out with the suspension, I advise you to get the Thunderbird shocks and build a lower mount for them to avoid this since you can damage the shocks.)
More Koni shock info comparing many dampeners.
If you can find them J-body Inserts that you can use in a regular front strut housing for a Beretta with bushing I designed or something else to space it properly.
DISCONTINUED
P/N# 8641-1454 Sport
A second Option that is known to work thanks to the J-body guys
-2nd gen Mitsubishi Eclipse (90-94) inserts can also be used. They are 15mm shorter and have more travel than the 3rd gen inserts. The only real reason for using these would be for more overall suspension travel.
-PN#8641-1231Sport
_______________________________________________________________
Saab 900 94-98 Rear Shocks that can be adapted to 94 and older rear suspension. All you need to do is drill out the upper mount to accept a 14mm bolt vs the 12mm that is on the stock shocks.
P/N# 8041-1191 Sport
Optional Bilstein Shock
Bilstein PN F4-BE5-2538-H0
Saab 900 94-98
______________________________________________________________
Once again another shock that fits the 95+ but was discontinued so if you can find this PN somewhere see if they still have any.
DISCONTINUED
KONI 8041-1202SPORT Ford Thunderbird
_______________________________________________________________
I have a open e-mail with them asking if there is any other option that is close to that setup. I may try to pick up some that are on Amazon listed as in stock somewhere.
To use the Thunderbird shocks above you will need to purchase some cheap aftermarket shocks they come with a lower bracket to mount them. Just narrow the collar on the shock by a tiny amount to fit this width and your good to go. Only difference between the Saab's and these Thunderbird ones is the valving is a bit more aggressive and the lower mount is a 14mm bolt vs a 10mm bolt.
Lower bushing is also 41mm wide vs 36mm. Hence the need to narrow it to fit the bracket.
Procedure for front strut build is below, I have more photos towards the end of the thread with my custom bushings I made.
Length numbers for each shock.
87-94 Beretta Rear Shocks, 21.73" Extended, 13.58" Compressed.
95-96 Beretta Rear Shocks 18.62" Extended, 12.13" Compressed.
KYB 94-98 Saab Rear Shocks 21.42" Extended, 13.39" Compressed.
Bilstein 94-98 Saab Rear Shocks 21 15/16" Extended, 14" Compressed.
Koni 94-98 Saab Rear Shocks 21 15/16" Extended, 13.25" Compressed.
Koni 1989-97 Thunderbird/Cougar Rear Shocks 19.21" Extended 11.85 Compressed
Info regarding using Saab 900 shock on 95-96, for a 95-96 fitment you will have a shock that is 3.3" longer at full extension, and 1.87-1.12" longer at full compression depending on which shock you use... I'm still unsure of what length you NEED to ensure you do not bottom out the shock before the factory bump stops. My first attempt with Saab Konis is about 1" less of travel. I HAD 3 1/8" of travel with the KYB's and I now have 2" of travel with the Koni's.(Shock will bottom out with the suspension, I advise you to get the Thunderbird shocks and build a lower mount for them to avoid this since you can damage the shocks.)
More Koni shock info comparing many dampeners.
Jonathan,
I responded to the prior email a few minutes ago. We cannot do a group buy that is organized by us but we can build a production run for a single company or individual to arrange and pay for and that person can organize a group buy or sell them however they want.
I cannot send drawing of the inserts themselves but the key specification of the insert Outside Diameter is not stated on the drawings anyway. Every application is vehicle specific and by definition an insert must be an exact dimensional fit inside the strut house for it to be secure and safe. We do not have any data that shows the IDs of the OE strut housings. I have done a review of the maximum extended and minimum compressed lengths and the valving specifications at two piston speeds (0.33meters/sec. or 13.0 inches/sec and .13 meters/sec or 5.1 inches/sec.) and find the specs for the Cavalier (8641-1454Sport ), Eclipse (8641-1231Sport) and the old Beretta/Grand Am (8641-1239Sport) to be quite different.
---------------------------Max. extended (mm)-----------Min. Compressed (mm)----------Rebound damping max/min (Newtons/sec)------------------Compression damping (Newtons/sec)
Beretta/Grand Am
8641-1239Sport--------------580---------------------------------417----------------------------------1300/650 @ .33 m/s---------------------------------------------400 @ .33 m/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------500/250 @ .13 m/s----------------------------------------------280 @ .13 m/s
Cavalier
8641-1454Sport--------------567---------------------------------400----------------------------------2500/1250 @ .33 m/s---------------------------------------------700 @ .33 m/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1500/750 @ .13 m/s----------------------------------------------400 @ .13 m/s
Eclipse
8641-1231Sport--------------528---------------------------------375----------------------------------2100/1050 @ .33 m/s---------------------------------------------900 @ .33 m/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1320/660 @ .13 m/s----------------------------------------------650 @ .13 m/s
Looking at the data, dimensionally the Beretta and Cavalier units are similar with Cavalier being ½ to ¾ inch shorter but the Cavalier is nearly double the rebound and compression damping forces of the Beretta. Although the valving of the Eclipse unit in rebound is in between the other two cars, the compression damping is much higher and most concerning the max and min dimensions are much shorter. Because of the way that it is designed, takes loading in the suspension, and makes beam strength or resists bending, It is extremely important that you not run too short an insert in a car or have it too far extended as the strength drops very rapidly as you extend it more than it was meant to be based on the vehicle ride height. Over-extending an insert is the primary way for failure when cross referencing part numbers so simply putting a very short strut insert in a car is often a very bad idea in reality.
Looking at the rears, here are the specs:
---------------------------Max. extended (mm)-----------Min. Compressed (mm)----------Rebound damping max/min (Newtons/sec)------------------Compression damping (Newtons/sec)
8040-1133Sport--------------573---------------------------------367----------------------------------1700/850 @ .33 m/s---------------------------------------------330 @ .33 m/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------560/280 @ .13 m/s----------------------------------------------200 @ .13 m/s
8041-1309Sport--------------614---------------------------------434----------------------------------2000/1000 @ .33 m/s---------------------------------------------300 @ .33 m/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------560/280 @ .13 m/s----------------------------------------------200 @ .13 m/s
8041-1191Sport--------------560---------------------------------337----------------------------------1500/750 @ .33 m/s---------------------------------------------450 @ .33 m/s
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------890/445 @ .13 m/s----------------------------------------------200 @ .13 m/s
The Cavalier rear shock is the outlier here with a much longer length (about 4 inches compressed) than the other two. It makes the most rebound force but the least high piston speed compression force.
Hopefully this data provides some insight but I think the key takeaway is that the Eclipse front insert is likely to be a bad idea unless you do a great deal of research and confirmation and the car’s ride height is sitting considerably lower than on the others.
Best regards,
Lee Grimes
KONI America
Automotive Product Mgr.
1961 International Way
Hebron, KY 41048
Cell (859) 630-9350
Desk (859) 586-4100 ext. 316
Fax (859) 334-3340