head gasket - difficult or easy?

[tvc3-gtz]

I am considering rescuing a decent looking white Beretta GT (1990, 3 spd auto). I am unsure if the guy will take my trade offer, but if it goes through I am willing to put the work in myself this spring, as I miss having a Beretta and this is a perfect commuter project for me. It has the radical Digi Dash just like my first car (89 GT auto) had. There are some pics below.. ok so now for the general repair question I had for this thread.

How hard is it to do a head gasket job yourself on the 3.1L v6? Are there any tools other than your standard issued ones that would be necessary for this gasket job? Would I have to pull the engine? If so, would it make sense to track down a 5 speed getrag and swap it in? I have many ideas, but they will obviously only come to fruition if I score this deal.

In the meantime I'd just like the gasket questions answered. Thanks!

[heavywoody]

I recently did a top-end rebuild on a 2.8 (identical to the 3.1) in which every gasket was replaced from the head gaskets on up.

It's not hard to do, no special tools that I can think of. There are parts of the 2.8/3.1 engine design I hate (the exhaust manifolds are somewhat of a pain to work around mainly due to the heat shields), but there are parts that I like compared to the 3x00 design (the stupid motor mount design).

Just make sure you get the heads cleaned/milled before you put them back on; aluminum heads have a tendency to warp.

Follow the torque sequence for the heads!

Use a little blue loc-tite on the intake manifold threads (or get new ones).

Rock Auto is your friend

[CorvetteBeretta]

A nice torque wrench and decent socket set and you should be fine.. Get a cardboard box and punch your push rods threw the box in the order you remove them so they go back in their original locations. Does anybody have the torque specs/sequence for a 2.8 lower and upper intake manifolds?

[Rettax3]

That is a nice looking GT! I hope you get it.

I am sure I have the specs here -I own both the Chilton (newer version) and Haynes manuals for these cars, and for many others that also use the 2.8. I also have access to Mitchell/Pro Demand (for what that is worth). AutoZone's website also has this data available, just create a user-name and log in, it is free. I agree, decent socket set, decent torque-wrench, also invest in one of these manuals and READ IT THROUGH for the work you plan to do before doing it -it will give you a good idea of what to expect. There is simply no replacement for having the info at your fingertips. If you just can't (or won't) find the sequence and torque specs, I will be happy to look that up for you, or someone else here who doesn't like teaching fishing can provide the info, I am sure.

For what it is worth, I have NEVER seen a 2.8 or 3.1 MPFI head warp, EVER. It can happen of course, but it would have to be some serious neglect involved. 3x00 heads are not as heavily cast, partially because of the larger intake runners that actually breath, and do (rarely) warp -but the engine in my '95 Z-26 had been overheated so badly that the valve guides separated from the rear head, but there was still no indication that it had warped. Clean the surfaces really well, and if you can, get a good straight-edge and a feeler-gauge just to make certain they are still straight (both service books I mentioned will go through the procedure for this in detail), but I wouldn't bet on needing to spend the money on resurfacing the heads.

Good luck!

Edit: -BTW, no, it is NOT necessary to pull the engine out to replace the head gaskets.

[MY91GT(Z)]

The.hell with rockauto if u have an advance auto near u go to their website n use promo code trt30 for 30% off ur order and get everything u can n need. But good luck on getting the car first..

[Asylum]

Basically what has been said.

2.8 and 3.1's are notorious for head gasket failure, and while warping is not a common problem, get them checked anyway, and depending on the mileage do a valve job to give them a fighting chance.

You may want to check...I forget if those head bolts are re-useable.

Get the best tools you can afford if starting fresh, get the hood off for ease of access, and go to it.

It's just nuts and bolts.

BUT!! Is that car even worth the effort?

[Rettax3]

It is a good job to learn on and build your skills, and also an opportunity to get to know the vehicle better. If you are really a fan of these cars, knowing how to work on them is a really good skill to have. Overall, that car looks pretty good, and if that digi-dash is fully functional, that is a big plus. Curious to know what they are asking for the car though...

[ronaconda]

Definitely get new head bolts. They are torque-to-yield. I have done this job quite a few times and your biggest PITA will be the exhaust heat shields. Leave those until you absolutely have to take them off - getting the other stuff off first will make getting at them much easier. Every nut/bolt is metric so have a good metric socket set. And a good torque wrench as mentioned before. The coolant lines at the throttle body will be a PITA and be very careful with the plastic vacuum manifold.

Good luck!!!

[DanteGTZ]

Please forgive the smart-ass coming through in this question but... Weren't you nervous to tear into a Quad4 a while back? I'm not saying the 2.8/3.1 HG job is all that bad but I think I'd rather tackle it on a Quad4...

[Rettax3]

2.8/3.1 m=pushrod. Quad 4 = DOHC, also pronounced "Doh(c)! What the !@#$! was I thinking when I decided to tear this POS apart!??" None of these engines are really hard to work on if you have some experience and the correct tools (info is the best tool you could have), but the Quads are definitely more complicated in a lot of ways. With the V-6s, it is just a case of pulling parts off, keeping track of where everything goes (especially vacuum lines and electrical connectors), keeping everything clean and putting it all back where it came from with the correct torque-specs. On the Quads, if you pull the head off and don't know what you are doing with the cams,you can jack up the timing and damage the engine. There is zero need to pull the frigging wheel off the car with the V-6 just to work on the top-end on the engine, and the crank-pully bolt on a Quad almost sent me to the hospital one time. Let us not forget the tensioner in that little gem too... I would rather do both heads on a MPFI V-6 than the one head on a Quad any day.

[DanteGTZ]

LOL - Quads are so easy it's almost retarded. Yes, you have to pull the wheel to get the timing cover off, but that's not hard. Plus timing cams is something you should be able to do... it's not hard, just one of those things you have to understand at some point. Pushrod motors have timing chains, too.

[Rettax3]

LOL - Quads are so easy it's almost retarded. Yes, you have to pull the wheel to get the timing cover off, but that's not hard. Plus timing cams is something you should be able to do... it's not hard, just one of those things you have to understand at some point. Pushrod motors have timing chains, too.

No argument here, except that the added work of pulling the wheel and working partly from the wheel-well is a PITA without a lift, having then to support the engine and remove the mount is likewise a chore, and cam timing is not necessarily the easiest part of an engine for a beginner to deal with -and on the V-6s, you don't even need to go near the timing chain to pull the heads. Just saying...

[3X00-Modified]

Everyone is WAY too afraid of timing components... I did my own legacy and some were mesmerized that I could manage that.... I mean there are 5 timing marks on that car... one on each cam pulley and one on the crank... and there are LINES on the belt.... It can't get much easier. I'm taking a stab here but I am going to guess there is a mark on each pully that probably needs to point to a notch in the plastic timing cover at say 3 and 9 o'clock for the intake and exhaust respectively (Or straight up)... and then one on the crank that has a tick or notch at 12 o'clock on the block... am I close?

And if you can't time a V6... that's just pathetic... You can put it together two different ways and it's still right... Marks pointing at each other or both at the top of the respective gear...

[Rettax3]

I've been stuck with four timing-belts this week. The easiest was actually a Ford 2.0 split-port engine (actually, there were two of them, the newer one was slightly easier but took a little longer because the timing cover is part of the mount). The PITA was the Honda 3.5 V-6: absolutely no clearance to work with in that bay. Even the radiator drain-port is buried an inch or more past the edge of the core-support so you practically need pliers to get to it... But the timing marks are visible in your sleep -hard to mess that one up. The one that surprised me was the older Toyota engine -where the only timing marks mentioned in either the book or by Mitchell are on the OUTSIDE of the timing cover and require the crank pulley to be installed to set the timing -kind of stupid when you need the cover off to set the tensioner, especially since the crank pulley is a press-on deal, unlike the Hondas'. Yes, Toyota did put in an internal mark too, if you know to look for it, then the cam sprocket mark is really hard to see straight-on with this particular car because of the shock-tower. I miss working on Berettas sometimes! (Until one of mine acts up, then I am sick of working on them. ) Overall, I hate timing-belt engines -but some of the best engines out there are belt-drive, so what are we going to do? Really, I just because I disagree with the concept of using a designed-to-fail rubber component holding critical timing components in place -particularly on interference engines. I am still riding the fence regarding my 3.4 DOHC "TDC" engine, but I really do want that thing in my Z-26 (partially because I don't think that conversion has ever been fully completed -someone point me in the right direction if it has been done, partially because it is a high-revving GM V-6 that makes over 200 H.P. in bone-stock form (which mine would not stay))... I know that timing chains can break too, but that is very rare, and they don't just 'go bad' from sitting unused for a long period of time.

As far as the Quads go, no they aren't bad to work on compared to some, and they are definitely better designed than the 2.4 LD9 "Twin Cam"s that replaced them, even if they don't have as much low-end and mid-range torque and aren't quite as smooth. I still keep thinking that I wouldn't mind replacing the LD9 in my Z-24 Turbo with a 2.3 Quad (again). I have some build ideas I would like to try out on that engine to deal with some of its' problems... But we are getting a little off-topic... tvc3-gtz, what is the word on this GT, do you think you are getting it or not??