What fuel pumps have been used?

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Rettax3
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What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Rettax3 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:42 am

So now that my '90 Turbo 'Retta has finally quit leaking oil from the turbo-supply line (steel line with double-flare fittings now), it decided to lose the fuel pump. I have had a lot of trouble with this car, due to the wiring damage in the bay, specifically with the fuel pump relay. But the pump was definitely toasted -I had voltage AND GROUND all the way back to the pump and it was not running. So, I got a new pump directly from the importer that supplies the Carter pumps (supposedly). I got a good deal on it (I actually bought two), and the kit included the strainer and sending unit O-ring, along with miscellaneous bits of hose and wiring I didn't need. Unfortunately, this new pump is not able to keep up with my engine's fuel demand -well, it IS a 3.4 high-flowing engine with headers and a turbo, but I am literally dropping pressure at moderate throttle, no boost, and mid-range RPMs -the original pump in the car was not having a problem running this engine, nor was the comparable OE pump in my '89 GTU having a problem feeding the SC 3800 before I finally swapped it out for the correct multi-speed pump the engine was looking for. So, although my new pump was a great price, it isn't up to the task proving once again that you get what you pay for. Rather than assuming this one is actually defective (it supplies 42 psi at idle just fine) and try swapping in the other one I bought, I was thinking about upgrading altogether. Here are some ideas I am tossing around:

-A stock Beretta pump is rated for ~24 gph depending on brand (I've seen ratings as high as 40gph, but they are not specifying an operating pressure, just a max pressure range of 65-95 psi). I can buy a brand I am comfortable with for as low as $19, or a Bosch for about $30. Either way, that is seriously cheap (uh, like me! :wink: )!

-I can get a 40 gal/hour unit designed to feed the TPI 350 (5.7 litre Camaro/Firebird) for around $33 from Rock Auto. This should more than adequately feed my 3.4 V-6, turbo or not. It is an Airtex, which I have used before without any problems, but it is not top-of-the-line either. Alternately, I can go OE ACDelco for about twice that price.

-The 3800 SC unit is rated for 65 gal/hour, but I am looking at $65-$105 for a brand I trust, and I am not certain that wiring this pump directly in without benefit of the multi-speed control module is a good idea.

What pumps have other Beretta owners tried? Are there any brands that have been tested to be particularly good, or particularly bad? Mostly, I am looking for actual experience, not so much "I've heard these are good, those are junk", I have a big enough collection of rumor...

What other pump applications have others here tried? I know at least one that went with the 350 TPI pump, any others?


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Cliff8928 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:12 am

I used an ACDelco fuel pump which would fit in a L31 equipped or similar truck, or LT1 equipped car. It was more for convenience than anything, but it was plug-and-play with my original in my GT. My 3400 is stock right down to the factory installed '99 intake gaskets. For what it's worth, those Vortec CSFI trucks run at a minimum of 60 PSI.


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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:53 am

Walbro drop on for my pickup... 255lph high pressure.

I'm going to try the F20000169 pump again this year with a fully intact bucket, I still had it from when I bought a walbro for my red car.

Previous years with my Pink car I had the GSS340 with the bucket all cut apart to get to the bottom of the tank.

http://www.autoperformanceengineering.c ... pumps.html



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Rettax3
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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Rettax3 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:49 pm

I have never heard anything bad about Walbro... Thanks for the link, Jon. I will add it to my list of possibilities, and will investigate the Delco LT1 fuel pumps Cliff -I assume the Caprice and the fourth-gen F-bodies would be the application for those... Any others?


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Cliff8928 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:04 am

The buyers guide says the exact ACDelco pump I had was used in....

CHEVROLET ASTRO (1992 - 1996)
CHEVROLET BLAZER 1995
CHEVROLET C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET C1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET C2500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET C2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET C3500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET K1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET K2500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET K2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET K3500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET P30 (1996 - 1997)
CHEVROLET S10 BLAZER (1992 - 1994)
CHEVROLET S10 PICKUP (1994 - 1995)
CHEVROLET TAHOE (1996 - 1997)
GMC C1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
GMC C1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
GMC C2500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
GMC C2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
GMC C3500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
GMC JIMMY (1992 - 1995)
GMC K1500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
GMC K1500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
GMC K2500 PICKUP (1996 - 1997)
GMC K2500 SUBURBAN (1996 - 1997)
GMC K3500 (1996 - 1997)
GMC P3500 (1996 - 1997)
GMC SAFARI (1992 - 1996)
GMC SONOMA (1991 - 1995)
GMC TYPHOON 1993
GMC YUKON (1996 - 1997)
OLDSMOBILE BRAVADA (1992 - 1994)

The other brands also spec it for LT1 equipped Roadmaster, Fleetwood, Caprice, Camaro, Corvette, Firebird and Impala.


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3400beretta
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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby 3400beretta » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:46 pm

I used one from an LS1 Fbody. I got the complete bucket assembly with pump off ebay for like $35. The pump fits in our bucket, I think I had to do a minor modification and remove the rubber/foam or whatever it is around the pump (I assume its for noise dampening). So far no fuel delivery issues.



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Rettax3
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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Rettax3 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:15 pm

3400beretta wrote:I used one from an LS1 Fbody. I got the complete bucket assembly with pump off ebay for like $35. The pump fits in our bucket, I think I had to do a minor modification and remove the rubber/foam or whatever it is around the pump (I assume its for noise dampening). So far no fuel delivery issues.

The foam is more for insulation, to help prevent thermal shock (for instance, a hot pump in a virtually empty tank suddenly getting flooded with cold fuel in winter...). Personally, I think it may be slightly more useful than the throttle-body heater lines, which account for about five to ten minutes of pure frustration when trying to remove a complete TB and upper manifold assembly, and give us an extra four or five leak-points for our cooling system...

Thanks for the input from those that responded, I did end up ordering a Bosch service upgrade pump -I got a great deal on it, and I am looking forward to testing it. I would say I trust Bosch about as far as Delco -which is pretty far in regard to fuel pumps :good: I feel pretty comfortable with stock Beretta specs (provided quality is good) to run even my 3.4 turbo, considering that stock ran my SC 3800. But, if I have a problem with it in the future, I will likely go with a V-8 Tuned-Port or Sequential Port supply pump, mostly what has been mentioned thusfar. If the pump has gone bad in my V-8 Indy from sitting so long, I will pretty certainly go with one of those for it.

But I still think this is an interesting subject (yeah, I know, I have an illness :roll: ), and would still like to hear what other pumps have been used.

My '95 Z-26 got a replacement pump when my niece had the car, IIRC it was just a "Master" brand from Checker or AutoZone, but it has worked fine for years afterward and is still in the car now.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Rettax3
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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:36 pm

So unfortunately, Rock Auto actually dicked me over on the Bosch pump -"Oops, we made a mistake on our inventory, but if you want to pay twice the price we can still send the same pump..." Yeah, that isn't the way to conduct business. I will still do business with them, but that particular order, no.

So, the car has been sitting (again) for a while. A few weeks ago, I pulled a pump from a newer Deville with the H.O. 4.6 Northstar. Higher operating pressure than the Berettas use (in the 50-60 range), and certainly able to power a bigger engine than mine, I don't think I will be over-taxing this thing. Oddly enough, this pump has two smaller inlet ports instead of the single big one. The '90 Berettas also do not use a bucket, so I had to make some modifications. I bought two small filters used for the Chrysler Sebring that fit beautifully, and cut-up a Coke can to make a bucket (of sorts) to keep the pump cool. I routed the return fuel line into the can to keep the supply of cool fuel fresh for the pump. It looks awful, but seems to work fine. The car runs good with it, 47 psi KOEO, 43 psi idle, 45 psi with some throttle put in. I still have to test drive it -the Indy project car is currently blocking it in- but the prognosis is good. And I am getting darn good at pulling that tank!
Attachments
Deville FP 2015.jpg
Diet, Caffeine Free Coke? Sure, for a more calming tire-burning turbo-boosting fuel-injecting experience! Gasoline was the best thing ever put into this can! It may look bad, but it is actually pretty sturdy.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Asylum » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:52 pm

And my mid 13 second 3500 ran just fine on a stock 140,000 KM (90,000 mile) pump and fuel lines!

Ported UIM, LIM, Heads, Huge TB, injectors and a crazy cam. 6700 RPM shift points and never missed a beat!

Can't remember ever changing the fuel filter, but the Dealer might have done it at one time. (I bought the car new!)

Over-Kill is just Over-Kill!

Just how much fuel do you think you need ?

Unless you are looking at making excessive Power-adder gains (Jon, Rodney, Tyler, etc.) a stock/OEM good quality replacement is just fine folks!!

I proved it on a car that no one is about to match anytime soon N/A.

%)


Eric

Asylum Motorsports
"Where we're not happy 'til YOU'RE not happy!






'91 California Quad
'92 3500 GT gone and not really missed. It was fun. Documented 13.47 N/A.

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Rettax3
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Re: What fuel pumps have been used?

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:34 pm

Just what do you consider "excessive" power adder gains? 8) 3400 ram-air LA1 block, 3400 roller cam, roller rockers, heavily ported 3.1 LG5 Maclaren Turbo intake manifold and heads (just as bad as any other 3.1 MPFI, BTW), meaning almost as good flow as a stock 3100 SFI :pardon:, large-tube block-hugger balanced headers, Garrett T-4 with a mouth big enough to swallow a pop-can (a little oversized for the engine, it breathes very well but doesn't spool quite quickly enough, I will likely replace it with a Triple-K K-3 I have), blowing through a full mandrel-bent 2.5" short-run exhaust matched with a Thrush Welded (think Flowmaster) muffler, true ram-air cold-air intake with upgraded filter, and large Blackstone Front Mount Intercooler.

Rettax3 wrote:...-the original pump in the car was not having a problem running this engine, nor was the comparable OE pump in my '89 GTU having a problem feeding the SC 3800...

So far as stock pumps, that is basically what I've had experience with too, as I said about both my GTU and the original pump in this car, and why I originally wanted that Bosch 'service upgrade' pump. With the turbo I am running, I could POSSIBLY flow more fuel through at peak than you did, but I am not planning on racing this car -ever- so I doubt that I'll be seeing peak flow often enough to shorten the life of my pump. I want reliability, but not at the cost of paying for new OE. The Deville pump was really just a good opportunity -and had I known it had the different inlet ports I probably would not have gone that route (I bought the complete bucket assembly, and got the surprise when I took it home and opened it). For the price I paid for a much newer OE pump that I know I won't be stressing, I am not complaining. The can 'bucket' was just to make sure I don't hurt this new pump by overheating it -I want to help it last as long as possible... :good:


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26


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