Crankshaft sensor relearn?

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Money pit Beretta
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Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:06 pm

On the 95 I replaced the crank sensor on the side of the block awhile back. Been having some sputtering starting and off and on rough running at idle. Is there a way to do a crankshaft relearn on this car without a GM Tech tool?

The sensor was replaced to try and get rid of these problems and was found to be full of oil with some leaking out of the pig tail.


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby 1988GTU » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 am

Don't recall needing a tech1-2 or needing to conduct a case relearn. However, with ignition turned to on not starting car for 11-15 minute, then to off, then back on for another 11-15 minute , then again off and once more to on same amount of minutes, followed by one last 30 seconds off then finally starting the car is typically a good case relearn. You will need a fully charged battery and a good afternoon to do this.


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:00 am

I can do case relearn with a DHP on obdii, it's a procedure that requires resetting it at idle and the reving it up to the limiter for it to calibrate. Not sure how to do it on 94-95 ecu's

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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:27 am

Yeah 3X00 that is what was found doing a web search. I too was unsure if it works for the 94-95. Didn't really want to try that with this old tired engine.

1988GTU I'll try that, seems more like the idle relearn, but it's worth a try.


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:56 am

Well for the 96 you need to put it into a re-learn mode... You don't just rev it up to the limiter to set it. Within DHP you open up the scanner then go to real-time options and pick Case Relearn... I can only assume you would need a scan tool to perform this on the 94-95 model as well, Unless OBDI has a specific procedure that they do that does not require that, 94-95 cars are OBDI after all, they just aren't programmed the same.



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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby ifixalot » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:09 pm

I have replaced several crank sensors on several engines as preventative maintenance and never had a problem of having to relearn.
In regards to the problem you are trying to fix, I suggest you pull the wire off the spark knock sensor and see if it helps.
I read spark knock sensors get too sensitive with age and falsely trigger.
I had problems with my 96 Beretta and my 94, 3.1 mini van that went away with a new spark knock sensor.
If it runs better without the knock sensor connected, then you know you need a new knock sensor.



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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:17 pm

Typically a case relearn only needs to be done if you change the pulley on the crank because you've now changed the relationship between the machined crank notches and the reluctor wheel that is behind the pulley. I actually need to do that to my car since it's a 3500 crank with a custom machined ring and a 3400 pulley on it with reluctor wheel... I'm sure that the relationship between those two parts is not the same as it was on my old 3400 that I did my case relearn on before.



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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:39 pm

Should have said that I have no way to put into relearn mode. Forget that people don't know that all I have is an Auto Xray. Do have a laptop now so there is a chance to move on to something better. So many irons in the fire that it's going out. Most years we have time off right now, but not this year.
It was kind of a long shot on the relearn. At this point frustration is making me grasp at anything.

Ok, so the relearn with the key on/off will be tried and unhooking the knock sensor (when there is a chance).

Changed the coils and that seemed to help for a short time.
New plug wires (same thing)
Crank sensor (same thing)
Knock sensor could be a part of this problem as it is stock and the 3100 does have slap. The problem seems worse now that it's cold. Would that have anything to do with a sputtering warm start? Guessing that it could do the spark retard being stored. Lastly I thought there was an upgrade for the knock sensor, something less sensitive. For an LS1 or some other V8 that would still work on the 60 degree. Or was it for a 3400 or 3500?


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby 1988GTU » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:28 am

A bad cam sensor can cause false kr detection.


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby ifixalot » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:45 am

On my 96 Beretta v6, it would run fine until it got a little warmed up and then I had a studder and or chug at part throttle and it seemed
a bit less powerful. I changed every fricken thing on the engine before I punted and unplugged the knock sensor. I got a new standard knock
sensor off Ebay and it worked for 2 weeks. The car ran great but then went back to it's old ways. So I bought another and it's been fine ever
since. I do have terrible cold engine piston slap. I think when cold, the spark knock sensor doesn't come into play somehow.
On my 94 3.1 TBI mini van, the problem was intermittent engine dying after restarting warm. I go to the store and when I come out, it would
start and then just die. I could restart but sometimes had to give it a bit of throttle. I changed everything on that too. It seemed like when I changed the distributor ignition module, it would be fine for awhile. I have bought about four ignition modules hoping to stumble across one that will keep on working. Finally, thinking about my Beretta, I decided to try a new knock sensor. I't been about a month now and it seems
to have cured that problem. I'm thinking if it senses knock, it retards the timing and in the Beretta, it loses power, in the mini van, the engine dies as the timing is retarded.
They say to torque the sensor in to 14 foot pounds, I think, so don't over tighten it. I think somebody else said turn it in until it snugs and got
1/4-1/3 turn further.
Just a side note, on the Beretta, it is an easy swap being on the front of the engine.
On the mini van, it in the rear of the block and I had to drain the coolant because the
knock sensor is screwed into the cooling system.



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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:17 pm

Cam sensor is just a few years old. Should be ok as it was one of the first things that was changed to combat this problem. At that time it was running better than it is now. Something is getting worse. It's a guessing game without some good software.

Oddly enough cold starts are becoming just as bad as warm starts. The computer has to keep the engine running. It fires off like it has good compression, then sputters, holds rpm and sputters again. Then on the last rpm hold everything is fine. Drives normal, but does idle down a bit too low in gear at a stop. Always thought that was due to the vacuum leak I've yet to find. Could be very wrong on that.

Going to be cold and get even colder this weekend. Around 10F in the morning on Sunday. They just lowered it(edit)
Thanks to all three of you for the support!

May have to do an order at Rock Auto for the GF's car, so the Beretta could be getting a knock sensor. Could use a wheel bearing too. :roll:


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby 1988GTU » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:24 pm

another leaking LIMG?


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Sat Jan 09, 2016 8:39 am

Been watching for that. So far nothing to point your finger at. If that happens that 3100 may come out and head for the JY. Three times would be too much, even if the second one was my fault. Takes me days to do that. Or hell....could just put on the ported intakes(lol).


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:39 am

Looking up the KS it looks like that it is also for the 4.6L V8(1995). Must be what I was thinking about. Then there was Robert Saar's look into the OBD2 KS for use on OBD1. Which didn't go anywhere that I know of. Did a search on 60 and found it again. Not sure why the mind somehow remembered that.


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Re: Crankshaft sensor relearn?

Postby ifixalot » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:01 am

If you are having the problem with a cold engine,
then I wouldn't buy a new KS since my KS problems only happened with a warm engine.
Again, you can just unplug it and see if it runs better and it'll cost you nothing.




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