Subs and amps

For all those little gadgets that make driving your car more fun and convienent. Big subs, screaming tweets? Got an amp that's on the way out? Need some recommendations? Then this is the place to ask.
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HateMyAuto
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Postby HateMyAuto » Sun May 21, 2006 10:34 pm

I have a couple more questions, probably won't be my last...

The recomended wire gauge for my amp is 6 to 18, would running 4 gauge wire to it cause any problems?

Would hooking up an 8 ohm impedance to an output that normally handles 4 ohms create any more problems than just lowering the wattage?

I'm stuck on deciding whether or not I should get a 10" or 12" sub. I've heard the 10" subs offer more "punch" while 12" subs offer more "boom." I'm really just wondering what other people have and looking for suggestions.

Thanks a lot in advace, and patience please, I'm still learning... :hammer


'96 Z26 Now with 10% more displacement
'94 Camaro

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wicked-irocz
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Subs and amps

Postby wicked-irocz » Mon May 22, 2006 6:41 pm

there is no problem with running lower gauge wire and I havent yet found an amp that had problems with higher impendence.  I prefer 12" subs as they give more thumb I guess you could say.  Sub size is definatly an individual preference.  People who like rap mostly tend to like 10" because they are lighter generally and react quicker.


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HateMyAuto
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Postby HateMyAuto » Mon May 22, 2006 11:02 pm

Thanks. I thougth that it was the case with the larger wire and higher impedance, just didn't want to test it out myself.


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BerettaLove32
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Postby BerettaLove32 » Tue May 23, 2006 2:05 am

I listen to all rap and I've always had 12s and they have all sounded real good. Are you lookign for SQ or SPL?



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Postby HateMyAuto » Tue May 23, 2006 10:58 am

I'm not sure, that's the thing. I would prefer SQ over a deafaning thump. I think I may end up buying one of each and trying it out and picking the one that I like better.





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Subs and amps

Postby Guest » Fri May 26, 2006 7:16 pm

You can run a higher ohm load on the amp than what it's rated for (8ohm sub on a 4ohm amp), but you can never go below the rated impedance without shortening the life considerably.

When it comes to power wires. The bigger, the better. Think of it as a 3/4" water hose. Hold your thumb over the end and turn the water on... see the amunt of water coming out? Now remove your thumb.. see the differance? The key thing is getting more power to the amp. bigger wire allows for more to get there, which allows your amp to output closer to it's rated output.

Sound wise... A 10 can sound just as good as a 12, which can sound just as good as a 15. This is mainly due to the install. If the enclosure for the sub is properly built, the sub will sound good. You'll notice very little differance between the 3 differant sizes when installed in the same type enclosure.



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Ryan from Ohio
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Postby Ryan from Ohio » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:15 pm

(wicked-irocz @ May 22 2006,17:41)
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there is no problem with running lower gauge wire and I havent yet found an amp that had problems with higher impendence.

Impedance is resistance.

The larger the wire, the less the resistance.

So the larger the wire the better. While you can overkill it for your needs, it wont harm the system.

As far as what size sub to get, the larger the cone diameter the more output it will have compared to its smaller siblings.



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Postby gar187er » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:35 pm

(TechSys @ May 26 2006,20:16)
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You'll notice very little differance between the 3 differant sizes when installed in the same type enclosure

either you have a bad ear, or else you think he does....huge difference in sound!!!! unless your a bass head, you dont need a 15 in your retta....get a nice DVC 12" pushing 300-400 RMS and you'll have plenty of bass.....


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Ryan from Ohio
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Postby Ryan from Ohio » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:51 pm

The only difference you will notice is in output.

Thinking you can hear the sub move faster is a myth.

Logicaly the smaller subs are faster. But theres no way in hell anyone could ever dream of hearing it.

60 Hz is 60 Hz no matter if its an 8" sub or a 20 foot sub. The sub still has to move so fast to create that tone...

Food for thought ;)



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Postby gar187er » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:57 am

moving fast, in some instance, its called tight bass, when that cone returns to rest, thats tightness, and i can tell between an 8 and 15 for sure....

anyway.....you saying an 8" woofer will sound the same as a 15" with same power? your smoking crack if you think so.....i get the 60hz is 60hz, but that 15 wont have any distortion getting that, most 8"s will be breaking up trying to get that low, and if you can get a 8" to hold at 60hz, i dont want to hear that muddy nasty mess...yuck!! and when you say fast, i hope you also mean deep, because that cone must also travel a set amount to achieve that frequency, and that 8" wont have a high enough xmax to get there cleanly, the 15" will....

i just keep coming back to this fast thing, i get it, but do you also get that excursion has to do with reproducing frequencies as well?
Food for thought  :p


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Ryan from Ohio
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Postby Ryan from Ohio » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:44 pm

(gar187er @ Jun. 14 2006,08:57)
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moving fast, in some instance, its called tight bass, when that cone returns to rest, thats tightness, and i can tell between an 8 and 15 for sure....

anyway.....you saying an 8" woofer will sound the same as a 15" with same power? your smoking crack if you think so.....i get the 60hz is 60hz, but that 15 wont have any distortion getting that, most 8"s will be breaking up trying to get that low, and if you can get a 8" to hold at 60hz, i dont want to hear that muddy nasty mess...yuck!! and when you say fast, i hope you also mean deep, because that cone must also travel a set amount to achieve that frequency, and that 8" wont have a high enough xmax to get there cleanly, the 15" will....

i just keep coming back to this fast thing, i get it, but do you also get that excursion has to do with reproducing frequencies as well?
Food for thought  :p

The reason you can hear a difference is your hearing SPL gain...

THe human ear can not nor ever will be able to tell which sub is faster... Which none really are. Electricity is instantaneous for the most part.

To emulate 60 Hz a sub must move so fast over a certain time period. That creats the frequency, period. So if an 8" sub is doing 60 Hz and a 18" sub is doing 60 Hz then they are both moving at the same exact rate, period.

If sub A and B are both 12" subs but sub A has 10mm Xmax and sub B has 30 MM Xmax then both will play 60 Hz at the same frequency. Just sub B will produce a higher spl given more xmax and the same surface area. Plain and simple it has more displacement.

The smaller subs fall off a bit of Fs though. Outside of that and lack of displacement, there is no fast or slow subs really...



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Postby gar187er » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:34 pm

yea displacement, a speaker can get to 60hz now whether or not it produces that tone with enough volume to hear it is another story (look at sony products, i know a low blow, but still its the truth)...

i am not disputing what your saying, as we are talking hard numbers\variables, but you can still hear the difference in different size subs, plain and simple...if we couldnt, we would all have 6 1/2" long throws in our cars and be uber-happy.....  :banana

we can hear/feel the displacement, not to mention the different efficiency in output...

60hz is 60hz, just as 28hz is 28hz, but for fun, how bout you find an 8" which can reproduce 28hz cleanly, and ill find a 15" that can reach 28hz cleanly?  :hammer

im not trying to a dick about things, but as i said if all subs are the same, then why make 15"+ woofers?


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Ryan from Ohio
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Postby Ryan from Ohio » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:39 pm

28 Hz is a hard number for many subs...

Even subs that it falls within range it would be at a lower SPL...

Now given a realistic number, say 60 Hz ( :D ) then its not a hard thing to do.

Objectively to be able to hear the woofer, not its displacement is another thing... This equates out to sound quality... And we all know that SQ is all based on perception.

Heres some McDOnalds for you:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showt ... aker+sizes
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showt ... light=myth

Im sure there is more out there... Speaker speed and noticeable difference is a myth, which is what I have been gettign at- in a round about way. Its been disproved on many instances by many people. True there are factors and acceptions, but for the most part its a myth thru and thru...







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Postby gar187er » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:53 pm

60hz i just find to be a 'higher' frequency when it comes to 'defining' the word subwoofer, hell my home sony speakers hit 60hz then they disappear.... :hammer  

just be sure to use the right size for your application....this sounds like im speaking in the thrid person, but Ryan, I think we are both gunning for the same thing, just in a different mindset....and that is there is such a thing as overkill....  :banana


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Postby HateMyAuto » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:28 am

(TechSys @ May 26 2006,18:16)
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When it comes to power wires. The bigger, the better. Think of it as a 3/4" water hose. Hold your thumb over the end and turn the water on... see the amunt of water coming out? Now remove your thumb.. see the differance? The key thing is getting more power to the amp. bigger wire allows for more to get there, which allows your amp to output closer to it's rated output.

So what you're saying is that the smaller diameter the wire, the faster the electricity has to move through it, just like the hose. So if I can get a small enough wire to get the electricity running faster than light, BOOM, instant flux capacitor, and my car can travel back in time! Awesome!


'96 Z26 Now with 10% more displacement
'94 Camaro


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