Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Need some setup advice, have some stories? For organized racing stories only! No street racing here!
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Cliff8928
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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain!

Postby Cliff8928 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:49 am

asylum wrote:I'm all over the Comp lobe profile charts. I'm still not totally comfortable with the fact they are regrinds and custom pushrods are required, but there doesn't seem to be alot of other choices.


As far as I knew, all of the Wot-Tech cams are now new and no longer re-grinds like they used to be.

Money pit Beretta wrote:I don't understand why if we have roller cams we need to get custom push rods.


It doesn't really have anything to do with the roller cam or not. As far as I know they only reason you would need custom pushrods is because the rockers aren't adjustable for the change to the base circle of the new cam.


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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby Asylum » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:22 am

What they are using Cliff is brand new solid replacement cams (not pressed on lobes like the OEM crap) and then regrinding them using the Comp lobe chart to about whatever you want.

There are dozens of lobe profiles available and you can create about anything you can imagine.

So "technically" it is a brand new cam, but it is a reground from the stock configuration.

Thus the need, or at least strong recommendation, for "custom" pushrods to maintain the geometry

:beer:


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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:24 am

Not any more... They are using blanks, not a stock profile, now that he went with comp. This is why you can have ANY profile ground into it. Mine was a regrind so I had to say within a certain spec as far as how much lobe separation and what center line I could have... You can have whatever you want.

So its a GRIND, but Not RE-Ground.

Also note on the pushrods... There is a custom set of pushrods for every LIFT profile, He gets the cams in and does a test with an adjustable one to determine the correct length to make sure there is the same amount of pre-load on the lifter as there is stock... It has NOTHING to do with geometry, the only areas that will slightly change is the angle of the pushrod, but only by a little. The rocker angle and such will not change because we have pedestal mount rockers with a set height on the stud, so no matter what you do with the length of the pushrod if the valve is close and the valve stem is still at the same height then the rocker will still be sitting at the same angle as it was stock.

Yes this is expensive... and I know you old timers are in awe that a good ole 350 you could buy a SUMMIT cam for 150 bux, BUT look up a newer Comp ROLLER profile cam for a 350... The are in the 350+ range... SO I would like to think our stuff is comparable now, since of course we are limited to going through someone like Ben who needs to profit a little since he's not giant like Summit. Also as far as springs go, your paying for LS6 or similar springs so once again its the same price as a 350 guy would pay, and the pushrods as well... My first set that I did on a Milzy cam were similar in price to what Ben sells and I went through Smith Brothers.

Just remember Eric, anything WELL over .600 you may be looking at having the heads worked on to support the lift ALSO run a few engine simulations.... Dave has proven it these motors respond to duration MORE than lift... Unless of course your boosted, so in Rodney's case I can understand wanting like .620 or so for lift.

Hey Rodney... I have a full spare room and you can HAVE the downstairs bathroom... That sound better than moving in to Eric's Garage? LOL I need work done!



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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby Asylum » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:59 am

I'm not going over .600 lift, but it may be close.

And I still don't like the idea of what become more or less "cam-specific" pushrods but when that is all there is ????.

And Jeff (EP) thinks he can get me a 40 tooth driven gear! 4.03 FDR FTMFW! But it will require a custom chain. YIKES!

:beer:


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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:21 am

Since you seem to be so close with Jeff, how about you have him help me out with a 60e... I need to know what parts from the 65e I can use in mine to make it stronger. I know I can do the sprags, but I also need to know if I can do the 2nd hub, and if i need a reaction shell form a 65e after doing that to make it work, and so on....

Obviously I'm capable of doing the work I just need to know what parts to get... I have almost the whole internals lined up for a 65e I just hate to drop 80 bux on all that when i may only need the $22 part.

Right now I have the 2nd clutch drum for $22 in my watch list, the planetary set for $35, and the input clutch drum for $24. I just nee to know which ones I need. Also what clutches he uses... I know he uses the 3rd Z-pack, so thats not a big deal.

Hell if he can sell me the parts with clutches I'll build it myself... I just need the parts.

asylum wrote:And I still don't like the idea of what become more or less "cam-specific" pushrods but when that is all there is ????.

We will ALWAYS have cam specific pushrods until the day someone creates adjustable stud mount rockers. We are stuck with no adjustment there so we need to make it somewhere else so we do it with the length of the pushrod.



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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby Asylum » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:25 am

e-mail him

tech@engineered.net

He gets back to me usually the same day, or next day for sure.

At least lately. It can be sketchy at times.
Last edited by Asylum on Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:31 am

I do, but I get very limited e-mail responses...

For example my last question to him.

Hey Jeff,
Long time no talk... I will be running through my trans this winter and I was wondering if you still offered rebuild parts for your LSD's... I haven't replaced any of my parts since I had this thing rebuilt in 07, I know you did the machined plates for me last year but you reused the same clutches and spiders so I'm not sure if they would need to be replaced yet or not. Also I'm not sure on the condition of the springs I have. Either way I was looking for a quote on the parts... a set of springs and clutches... And POSSIBLY a set of spiders, but I'm not sure if thats necessary. All will be told when I get it apart... I remember when I switched from the 3.06 diff to the 3.29 one, everything seemed to be ok, but I wasn't really impressed with how much preload I had, I was thinking of shimming the springs, but I wasn't sure if you had ones that would work better or not.

I'm not sure when I'll be taking this apart but I was also looking to go through the trans and do some upgrades over this winter. I remember you asking me if I wanted to go with the 4t65e sprags and whatnot a while back, and I was wondering what else I would need to do this... I'm definately getting a few valve body valves and stuff like I did to my old trans and also going for the 3rd z-pack, but I know you said before in your performance 60e's you were doing there were those other 65e parts.

I can probably get a low mile 65e up here for under $200 so I'll be able to get the parts, but I was just curious on which ones I should use and need to use in conjunctioon with each other. I want to make sure this auto will hold up to whatever I can throw at it.

Also do you have any other tips on shift firmness? Right now I have the accumulators shimmed quite a bit, and I also noticed on my old 94 trans when I did the Low ratio boost valve on the valve body, that increased the firmness quite a bit for the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. My 96 leaves some to be desired on the 2-3 and 3-4, and I think its because I didn't put that valve in this trans when I built it.


This is what he replied with to me

When you take it apart, let me know what you need. The plates are 150/pr, the clutches are 100/pr.


NADA... so I'm still in the dark. He hooks you up with info and parts and I know Billy does your trans work not him.. so I don't know why he wont give me some insight on the 65e interchange parts.

Bottom line I don't have the money to experiment on something that's already been figured out.



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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby Asylum » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:16 pm

OFF TOPIC!!

I have mentioned to Jeff that he should make an effort to see if the questions you pose should get some attention just for your position here, and the fact your car is a benchmark for others.

And I am posting this here as opposed to PM because I told him I would.

Everything upfront and see what happens.

Jeff is Jeff and a great guy with great products, but he does have other interests and perhaps prioritizes things as they present.

He has always been great with me. FWIW!!

:beer:


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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby 3X00-Modified » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:02 am

Well as I told you, nevermind I guess.

I think its about time I stop helping all together with this stuff because apparently its never appreciated. I guess you just really can't make everyone happy... no matter what you do you'll piss someone off, and they will end up being the most important to your cause.



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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby wicked-irocz » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:43 pm

So I do appreciate everything you do Jon and am hoping to get some more information from you in the not to distant future. I'll have to PM ya but I need something.

EDIT: Eric, I need a vid or atleast a slip of that run of Rodneys so I can get that on the time sheet


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Re: Season's over. Damn Rain! Changes Coming.

Postby Asylum » Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:33 am

wicked-irocz wrote:
EDIT: Eric, I need a vid or atleast a slip of that run of Rodneys so I can get that on the time sheet



I'll mention it to him if he doesn't see this. There is no vid, but I was there and I'm pretty sure he has the slip somewhere. (You are aware he blew the hell out of it on the next run!)



:beer:


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"Where we're not happy 'til YOU'RE not happy!






'91 California Quad
'92 3500 GT gone and not really missed. It was fun. Documented 13.47 N/A.


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