Back to Berettas after 15+ years

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EPfiffner
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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby EPfiffner » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:26 pm

GT_Indy wrote:Sounds just like the way my old 88 behaved years ago before the 3T40 completly lost Reverse then several weeks after I lost Drive and then nothing worked. Then I did a used transmission swap because a rebuild wasnt worth the money for it. Then the rust got to bad and I junked it because it wasnt as safe.


Uh oh, doesn't sound good for me then. I'm going to keep rollin' it for now unless it gets worse, just no more mountain trips lol

Rettax3 wrote:
EPfiffner wrote:I put a SK125 Transgo kit in the 3t40, well, just because. Aaand I won't like it and I will want a 5 speed.


Yep, time for that 5-speed swap! :wink: Glad the car got you home, sometimes I think we forget how important that is... Awfully kind of our Berettas to remind us of that once in a while. :D


It would be sooo much nicer with the manual. Word on the street here though is the parts are rare. My firewall has rust damage in the areas where the clutch master mounts, it doesn't cause an issue since it's an auto but the metal isn't 100%. I have no problems welding or doing sheet metal, but it'd be a big project.

I have to rebuild the engine in the wife's trailblazer first, it's burning oil like no tomorrow.



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GT_Indy
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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby GT_Indy » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:55 pm

Rettax3 wrote:
EPfiffner wrote:I put a SK125 Transgo kit in the 3t40, well, just because. Aaand I won't like it and I will want a 5 speed.


Yep, time for that 5-speed swap! :wink: Glad the car got you home, sometimes I think we forget how important that is... Awfully kind of our Berettas to remind us of that once in a while. :D


Yah, getting it home is the important part.


96 Beretta Z26 swap
90 Beretta GTZ
90 Beretta Indy

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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby woody90gtz » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:36 am

The 5 speed swap is some work, but so worth it. Really wakes up the car.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - EP, FFP, TCE, SPEC, DSS, S&S, OBD1 GEARHEAD dezign

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Rettax3
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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby Rettax3 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:25 pm

What part of the country are you in? I do have a great shifting non-slipping TH125C (aka 3T40) in my '90 Yellow Indy -I want to 5-speed swap that car and just need the pedal set at this point, and the TH won't have a home after that (I have a few new CV joints for it too that came with the car)... I had to junk the TH from my GTU several years ago, because nobody out here wanted to buy it at the time and I needed a core for the junk-yard -I unbolted almost everything I could from that thing, slapped the pan back on and gave it over with a sad wave goodbye. In fact, I still have the parts wrapped-up and boxed, but I'm not sure you would want to dig into your trans like that, or if I even have what you would need...

An aftermarket cooler placed inline with the radiator's cooler (and flush that one out) might help prolong your tranny's life...


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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GT_Indy
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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby GT_Indy » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:56 pm

Rettax3 wrote:What part of the country are you in? I do have a great shifting non-slipping TH125C (aka 3T40) in my '90 Yellow Indy -I want to 5-speed swap that car and just need the pedal set at this point, and the TH won't have a home after that (I have a few new CV joints for it too that came with the car)... I had to junk the TH from my GTU several years ago, because nobody out here wanted to buy it at the time and I needed a core for the junk-yard -I unbolted almost everything I could from that thing, slapped the pan back on and gave it over with a sad wave goodbye. In fact, I still have the parts wrapped-up and boxed, but I'm not sure you would want to dig into your trans like that, or if I even have what you would need...

An aftermarket cooler placed inline with the radiator's cooler (and flush that one out) might help prolong your tranny's life...


I know the feeling with junking good parts, I junked all this about a year ago because I couldn't keep them any longer:
2.8 mpfi (1)
3.1 MPFI (2)
3100 SFI (1)
3400 SFI (1)
4T60e (1)
olds 307 (1)
200-r4 auto (1)
3T40 auto (3)

I had them listed a bit less than the local junk yards and already pulled, nobody wanted them.
Couldn't keep them anymore so I took them to the shredder facility for metal weight, got almost as much as I was asking for everything so not a big loss.


96 Beretta Z26 swap
90 Beretta GTZ
90 Beretta Indy

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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby EPfiffner » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:41 am

Rettax3 wrote:What part of the country are you in? I do have a great shifting non-slipping TH125C (aka 3T40) in my '90 Yellow Indy -I want to 5-speed swap that car and just need the pedal set at this point, and the TH won't have a home after that (I have a few new CV joints for it too that came with the car)... I had to junk the TH from my GTU several years ago, because nobody out here wanted to buy it at the time and I needed a core for the junk-yard -I unbolted almost everything I could from that thing, slapped the pan back on and gave it over with a sad wave goodbye. In fact, I still have the parts wrapped-up and boxed, but I'm not sure you would want to dig into your trans like that, or if I even have what you would need...

An aftermarket cooler placed inline with the radiator's cooler (and flush that one out) might help prolong your tranny's life...


Thanks for all of the suggestions, as usual I'm a month late to the party. I only get notifications if someone quotes me.

I'm in NE ohio, half hour from Summit Racing.

Still evaluating the trans, I adjusted the TV cable (push it in all the way and floor the pedal).

It shifts strong, I think it's just the lockup kicking in and out, I'm going to disconnect it and see.

Ever since we got back from vacay I swear it's down on power, and that could be the excessive shifting too.

I'm not afraid to rebuild that trans at all, that's an easy one.

Still would rather do the manual trans. However I am so deep in to restoring my MGB that I would rather just keep the Beretta going for now and maybe mod it another day. I

Also still evaluating the oil consumption in our trailblazer, repairing that may sidetrack the restoration anyway.



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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby EPfiffner » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:05 am

This past weekend along with some maintenance, I had to check out the front motor mount. I could tell something wasn't right ever since we took it in vacation.

I had replaced the mount last winter so it's only got maybe 8k miles on it.
Once I had the car jacked up I could see the front cradle was riding in the subframe: there's my rattling.

I thought the cheapass China mount may have broken , but I pulled it out and it was fine, it's just that the countersunk Allen bolts on the bottom had worked loose. I fabbed a thicker shim for under the mount (looked like the bolts could be bottoming out).

I figured now's the time to install my RK Sport poly insert too.
I didn't install it in the first place because it took like 2 months to get it. Something went wrong with the order, but they got it to me eventually after I had already put the car back on the road.

I fabbed a plate out of scrap steel I had laying around to sandwich between the aluminum wishbone and the poly insert, with the intent of keeping it from riding up in the steel housing. My car is a '93, apparently at some point the mount was redesigned so this doesn't happen.

The insert is a tight fit, which is nice. I greased up the rubber oem mount and then the poly insert slid in with some persuasion.am

Here's some pics. So far so good, it certainly stiffened it up, it transfers more engine vibration but I'm ok with that.
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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby EPfiffner » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:26 pm

Well the "idle relearn" worked for A few days, but it crept back up to about 1k in gear, and it hunts around/races at around 3k if I let it warm up in the driveway.

I unplugged the TCC as a test, that is what I was feeling with the tranny. 1-2, 2-3 feel good, it was just kicking in and out of lockup.

This weekend I started the car and took off while it was still cold, it was bucking bad I hadn't experienced that until recently.
I'm thinking a fuel delivery issue, it was bad at tip-in and at midrange. Didn't feel like one cylinder, more like the whole engine cutting in and out.

I'll have to rent the gauge from auto zone again and check the pressure. I put a Delphi pump in it when I bought the car, but I haven't had good luck with replacement fuel pumps.

I was going to drive the car today but the battery was dead. It looks like snow here for the next few days, so I'll be driving one of the beaters.



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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby EPfiffner » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:43 pm

I'm still troubleshooting this. I posted a bit about it in the "what did you do to your ride today?" thread.

Injectors and harness ohm out ok. Replaced the CPS (had oil in it) and checked the harness to make sure it didn't get smashed under the cradle.

I love having gm vehicles of similar vintage. Swapped the MAP from the Beretta on to my S10 blazer. The blazer runs fine, so id say the MAP is not the issue.

I've been watching YouTube vids by a guy ScannerDanner, he shows checking injector current draw.

I have an oscilloscope, and I'm borrowing a clamp on current probe from work (ssshhh!)

I'm going to try a measurement. I can't tell whether it's an ignition or fuel problem. The tach doesn't seem to jump, and my Mac scan tool live stream did not seem to be dropping the rpm signal, but maybe the serial data is too slow to show it.



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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:03 pm

...And if I had seen this before replying in the other thread... :pardon: Okay, so the MAP looks good, presumably the vacuum line to it is good too. I bought a 3.1/auto Camaro from a co-worker a few years back (and yes, sold it, thank you) that had a transient voltage surge in the low-voltage (5V) reference lines that was messing with the MAP signal. It also had 5 out of six bad injectors -stuck open (dribbling), stuck closed, poor spray patterns, and only one with a shorted coil, but the car had been sitting for a couple of years and may have gotten contamination in the fuel too.

Going back to basics here, is there any corrosion in the harness to the ECM? Damage to the wires under the hood? Using a hand-vacuum pump, watch the ECM's input from the MAP while you change the vacuum on it.

I am still liking the CTS as your problem, as I mentioned in the other thread. Cheap, easy fix too.

Hmm, you might even have a partially plugged catalytic converter -get under the car and 'lightly' bang on it -listen for rattling. We had a Celebrity (GM A-Body) with a 2.8 in the shop a few years ago with a plugged cat -it looked like a plastic bag or something had gotten sucked into the engine and melted into the cat's honeycomb once we cut it open. No rattling, and so many things on that car were borderline that a lot of parts and money had been put into this car before the cat issue was figured out -in fact, it had been taken to a different shop first, and they had it for two or three months, and replaced almost everything on it, including the ECM (I brought in a known-good spare of my own to test, as I don't trust the Cardone 'Reman' computers, and even they won't fix a bad PROM/MEMCAL chip, as you have to transplant those from your old ECM)... I had also replaced an out-of-spec injector and found a leaking EGR valve along the way, everything helped a little, but the cat was the problem.

Keep us posted...


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Back to Berettas after 15+ years

Postby EPfiffner » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:35 am

Rettax3 wrote:...And if I had seen this before replying in the other thread... :pardon: Okay, so the MAP looks good, presumably the vacuum line to it is good too. I bought a 3.1/auto Camaro from a co-worker a few years back (and yes, sold it, thank you) that had a transient voltage surge in the low-voltage (5V) reference lines that was messing with the MAP signal. It also had 5 out of six bad injectors -stuck open (dribbling), stuck closed, poor spray patterns, and only one with a shorted coil, but the car had been sitting for a couple of years and may have gotten contamination in the fuel too.

Going back to basics here, is there any corrosion in the harness to the ECM? Damage to the wires under the hood? Using a hand-vacuum pump, watch the ECM's input from the MAP while you change the vacuum on it.

I am still liking the CTS as your problem, as I mentioned in the other thread. Cheap, easy fix too.

Hmm, you might even have a partially plugged catalytic converter -get under the car and 'lightly' bang on it -listen for rattling. We had a Celebrity (GM A-Body) with a 2.8 in the shop a few years ago with a plugged cat -it looked like a plastic bag or something had gotten sucked into the engine and melted into the cat's honeycomb once we cut it open. No rattling, and so many things on that car were borderline that a lot of parts and money had been put into this car before the cat issue was figured out -in fact, it had been taken to a different shop first, and they had it for two or three months, and replaced almost everything on it, including the ECM (I brought in a known-good spare of my own to test, as I don't trust the Cardone 'Reman' computers, and even they won't fix a bad PROM/MEMCAL chip, as you have to transplant those from your old ECM)... I had also replaced an out-of-spec injector and found a leaking EGR valve along the way, everything helped a little, but the cat was the problem.

Keep us posted...


Well I made it confusing by posting in two different threads...anyway:

I checked the CTS readings Saturday after I read your post. The car had cooled off for about an hour from full operating temp and I read 53C.

I then took it for a drive, and when I pulled back in the garage it was reading 92C.

Interesting about the 5v ref. This weekend while I was troubleshooting I had backprobed the IAT to monitor the reference and was reading around 4.2-4.3v, I wonder if there's something to that?

I had a scope on the injector control wire, I was seeing about 2.5a per bank, I believe this is normal.

Good call on checking the MAP, I will borrow my dad's MityVac but I checked the vac line and I swapped the sensor with a known good from my blazer. The signal on my scanner changes with load.

I have yet to pull the ecm and check connections, etc but it's on my list.

This weekend I pulled the ICM/ coil packs and ohmed the coils, checked everything for corrosion, looked good.

The module had a date code of '08 so it's been replaced. 2 of the coil packs have plug wire numbers so I think they are oem, one has been replaced.

I drove the car to work today, and it's getting worse so that might help with the troubleshooting.
It really cuts out when you change pressure on the gas pedal, whether it's more pressure, or even letting off to coast like on the highway.

Coupled with this I have a very high idle. 1000 in gear, 1500 in park.

I'm starting to wonder vacuum leak, like LIM? This is an MPFI so not as prone as the SFI, but still, 165k.

Oh and the cat: deleted by the PO. Sorry, ozone layer!
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