Using a 93 GT as a 5speed swap Donor for my 95Z, and then...

[LOLVTEC]

So I'm dying to swap the trans in my Z (among other things)... I've been contemplating what would be the best route to take to accomplish that... I know of several 92+ 3.1 5speed cars around for pretty cheap... I had the wild thought that perhaps I could buy one, and then swap almost everything from car to car... I'm talking the entire drivetrain (engine, trans, suspension/cradle, wiring harnesses and computer) from the 5speed car, and vise-versa... In theory, if the cars are the same and everything drive-train related is swapped over, this should work, wouldn't it? I'd then on the other hand have a 92+ 3100 4t60e equipped car (which I would have no use for, and then I'd just sell it). I'm sure that or something like it has been done before...

To me this may be the most straight forward way to swap the car, and the easiest way to make sure I have everything (I know I'd still have to weld the trans mount in the 95Z), but I would for sure have all that parts necessary. My only question at that point would be, what would I do if I decided to convert the 95Z to OBDII?

I finally put the 95Z on the road last week and within the first day or 2 I started noticing a pungent gasoline smell... after getting out of my car a few times to noticed a pool of gas collecting underneath the engine while it was running, I decided to park it and check it out... It appears that the fuel injector closest to the power steering pump is spraying gas out. My first guess is that an injector O-ring is bad, but I guess I won't know until I get it apart and get a closer look at it. Anyone have any other hunches?

[heavywoody]

Personally, if you can get the GT as a donor car for cheap enough, I wouldn't waste my time on swapping the 4T60 into it.

While getting a parts car to do the swap is the best way (at least you'll have all the parts you need in one hit), it seems silly to me to duplicate the headache. And it sounds like you are talking about putting the 3.1 into the 95, which doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Buy the parts car, swap the trans stuff into the 95Z, sell the parts or scrap them, and have what you want.

As far as the gas smell, it could be o-rings on the injectors (I'd replace all of them since they are cheap insurance against future fires), but also inspect the schrader valve on the end of the fuel rail to make sure it's not stuck open or the o-ring for it isn't leaking.

[3X00-Modified]

Um yeah... Don't rid the 3100 for a 3.1... that's like a kick in the teeth when it comes to HP output.

[LOLVTEC]

That was something I should've specified, but I thought it would be understood I'd be going either 3400 or 3500 lol. Thanks for the input guys.

Any thoughts on what the best route for tuning or OBD system choices on the 95Z would be? Jon I remember in the other thread I had on this car you recommended swapping to OBD and said it was relatively simple if you have all the parts. That's obviously in the case that I stick with the 95 setup and wiring... If I go this route, it seems like it would be a totally different story, am I right?

[3X00-Modified]

Well you have two options... it's already OBD no matter which way you go... both are tunable and IIRC both have the same table support because they use the same definition's for the bin. The benefit of sticking with the 95 setup is way less time involved swapping harnesses to begin with and the OBDI.5 system is flash-able in place. the old 93 OBDI system you need to pull the chip every time to flash it or use a moates realtime programmer which is pricey...

Review the OBDI.5 tuning thread, it has links to the companies that sell the hardware and IIRC RobIsaar or something has a definition file that works with the bin's.

Bottom line I see NO benefit to swapping the driveline fully to the older car.... Never mind that someone may be scared of the retrofitted setup and not want to pay much for it. Pull what you need from it and sell it as scrap.

[LOLVTEC]

The way I'm kind of looking at it is to swap the 95Z to the entire 93's setup would be much simpler in terms of completing the 5 speed swap... No wiring to cut up or any kind of computer or electrical issues... And I don't know, to me pulling the memcal doesn't seem like that big of a chore compared to all the extra work I'd have to do to make an OBD1.5 or OBD2 car run when swapping to a 5 speed... You know? I get that once the work is done to convert the car to OBD2 and also a manual trans, that it's done, and tuning it is more practical; but in regards to the older memcal setup how many times does it take to flash one to get a car running perfectly? Twice? 3 times tops? I'll admit this is an area I don't know a whole lot about...

In terms of swapping the 95 setup to the older car (effectively updating and upgrading it), I realize it may seem kind of dumb or like a waste of time, but the car I'm looking at seems to have a really good body... I'd just feel really bad about scrapping something that could be nice, especially if I could pick it up for cheap (like $500 or so), get it running and then turn around and flip/sell it. I'm not sure if I've ever heard of anyone doing this paritcular swap, but I'm sure it's been done?

[woody90gtz]

If you can nail a tune in 3 memcals you are a god...haha From scratch it will take 15. Minimum.

I have not been in the BIN for a 95, but the 5spd part of the tune might be super easy. In my 94 truck the 5spd part of the tune was a flag for "manual trans" and a new spark table that helps with torque while letting out the clutch. If you're going 3400 the tune will be much closer with a 3100 BIN than the MPFI one. And SFI is nice to retain.

If there is stuff available to flash an OBD1.5 computer now, then that is the way to go IMO.

[LOLVTEC]

Wow, I know even less than I thought I did, lol. Well, I guess I should rephrase what I meant by not necessarily "nailing" a memcal tune, but getting something that is "good enough" to drive around with no huge problems and still a healthy running car.

The biggest thing that has sort of stumped me on the 5 speed swap stuff for a 94+ Beretta is what the heck do you do for a wiring harness and ECM? Do you just cut and splice the original harness as needed and the car cranks up and drives no problem with a 95 ECM and wiring harness? I was always under the impression that you wanted to have a V6 5speed engine harness for the swap...?

[3X00-Modified]

Two things you need to do is connect the proper wires together that come from the P/N switch to make the ecu believe it's in drive, Then the only major things you need to do is wire up the existing start lockout to the clutch to ensure you'll pass tech at some Dragways. Some don't so their cars will crank without depressing the clutch pedal, and yes then it will start up.

There has to be some info on this forum somewhere about it.

I don't know why so many people are so afraid of the 94+ wiring systems when it comes to a 5 speed...

[heavywoody]

All that info is in that writeup... it's not a big deal.

[3X00-Modified]

Did you send him a write up? Because I know we don't have one pinned on this site yet.

[heavywoody]

Woody sent him the one I made up years ago, cuz I didn't when he asked about it (sorry Cam - been hella busy with the new little one and all).

[3X00-Modified]

I was just checking to make sure I wasn't crazy because I couldn't find it on here.

[heavywoody]

It probably should be up here somewhere...

[LOLVTEC]

Congrats on the kid Geoff, must be a great feeling.

I do have the writeup. I'm going to pick up my 5 speed swap donor car (93 GT) Monday. I think I've decided to go 3500 and OBD2. I'll snag an engine bay and dash harness from a 96, and then a 97 Monte ECM. Is there any real difference between going with the Monte or Venture ECM?