Finally...

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GT_Indy
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Re: Finally...

Postby GT_Indy » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:20 am

That sound good!


96 Beretta Z26 swap
90 Beretta GTZ
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Rettax3
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Re: Finally...

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:54 pm

Still plugging away at this thing, a little here and a little there. I'm trying not to rush this build, so I keep trading-off functional work with cosmetic, to keep it all going at a pace. I have managed to find a use for an old 2.4L Twin Cam IDI cover other than as an extension-cord and air-hose walk-over plate for the garage floor too... :D I am very tempted to use one of my H.O. Quad 4 IDI covers, but need to alter it to read "24V" instead of "16V" first. I kind of hate to cut one of those up, too. Here is where the car is at now:
Finished Bay4a.jpg
Finished bay, well about 99%.

Almost nothing left to 'tidy' in here. I do still need to run the line for my boost gauge, but the Tee is already installed and ready to go. I need a new oil filler cap too...
I also need to modify the front plastic 'header-panel cover' for the coolant reservoir access and for the washer-bottle access, which is why it isn't fully installed yet. It is hard to see here, but peeking into the frame on the passenger-side of the panel is the coolant-pressure gauge, which is tapped onto the radiator's old bleeder-port. I had initially routed a bleeder line over to that port, but overall it seemed unnecessary, so I ditched it.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Finally...

Postby GT_Indy » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:43 pm

Wow that engine bay is cramped.
Looks good though! :good:


96 Beretta Z26 swap
90 Beretta GTZ
90 Beretta Indy

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Rettax3
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Re: Finally...

Postby Rettax3 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:53 am

Patience NO.jpg
Heere, Mustang, Mustang, Mustang!

I got the first drive in on the car today.! :Yahoo!:

I would like to paint the shop before the weather goes South, and I need to get the car moved first. This weekend just got booked-up so I made a decision... I'll still have to lift it back up later to finish up some exhaust work, and the water-pump is leaking really bad now, but I want to circulate that cleaner just a little more before I dump it out and refill with glycol.

The car definitely sounds weird -not like something is wrong with it (although the Power Steering Pump is making noise, something is wrong there), but it sounds nothing like any of my other 60-degree V-6s (turbo or non, 3x00 or MPFI), or like my 3800SC. The turbo isn't super loud inside the car, but apparently it is audible at ~1/4 throttle, before I even got out of the driveway. :D Taking the car up the road a little, the turbo definitely starts spooling way earlier on this engine than it did on the pushrod 3.4 in my '90. I don't have my boost gauge installed yet, so I don't want to get on it too much yet, but the turbo is definitely alive on this thing.

The idle is more than a little off, BUT the ECM still thinks it is looking for an automatic, it may not be as adaptable as the OBD2 PCM in the GTU, and I haven't switched it over to 'Drive' mode (significantly lower red-line for one, but maybe also different idle characteristics? Not sure on that...), but I suspect the IAC is a bit slow, so I may swap a newer one in if it doesn't level out a bit.

Biggest issue is the smoke -unfortunately, this thing smokes like a freight-train under any load. When my Garrett T-04 was on my '90 'Retta, it didn't smoke, so I know that isn't the source. So, either oil-control ring(s) or more likely hardened valve-stem seals... Dammit.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Finally...

Postby Rettax3 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:05 am

Took some time to replace the 23-year-old water-pump today. It is officially a PITA. Oh well. Procedure (now that I know what it takes to do it) goes about like this:
-Remove battery (cause, it is now on that side) :wink:
-Remove right-side strut-tower to radiator upper core-support brace (or just the lower bolt and swing it out of the way)
-Disconnect heater-core supply hose (at that front corner of the engine)
-Disconnect EVAP canister hose from hard-line, swing hard-line over and out of the way (requiring unbolting the retaining strap of course)
-Place jack and block of wood under the oil-pan (this is a steel-pan engine, not like the 3x00 aluminum pan, but I still recommend to myself a block under it) :D
-Support engine and disconnect lower right front and upper left front engine-mounts (single bolt each, pretty accessible though one is from under the car)
-Raise engine slightly in front to provide clearance for pulley and pump removal (about two inches did it for me with the stock pump, my new Gates might need a little less since the stamped-steel impeller isn't as bulky as the OE cast piece is)
-Remove water-pump pulley
-Remove water-pump
-Clean mating surface (then flush system through heater-core supply hose, and again through coolant pressure-cap elbow)
-Assembly is reverse of removal.
-Fill coolant system with blahblahblah and pressure-test accordingly.

I haven't refilled the system yet though, because it was still dribbling out of the radiator drain-cock when I stopped for dinner. I'll let it stay open over night. I also drained-out both banks, and flushed it again with the plugs out -that also left a puddle on the ground that I don't want to work in, another reason to wait until tomorrow to reinstall the plugs.

I learned a few things for sure about this conversion thusfar. 1. I made it way more difficult to change the water-pump. 2. If I had to replace the serpentine-belt at the same time, it isn't hugely worse than the stock 3100 after all, which also needs to have the engine supported and the mount removed, so that would help catch me up on time. 3. My serp-belt still isn't tight enough -although it is the only belt I could get to fit in there, I was able to remove and install the water-pump pulley without putting a wrench on the tensioner. I haven't noticed it slipping, but I think I will have a problem once the belt gets a little older, and maybe stretches a little. Maybe it is fine, and just doesn't put much pressure against the water-pump, since the angle of the belt has changed a little with the smaller alternator pulley... Maybe that reduced pressure will even help the pump last longer, with less side-load against the pulley.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Finally...

Postby woody90gtz » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:33 pm

Glad you got to drive it! Sucks it has issues though.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - EP, FFP, TCE, SPEC, DSS, S&S, OBD1 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Finally...

Postby GT_Indy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:13 am

I recomend a tighter belt to bring it back to how it was before the smaller pulley on the alternator.
It will slip eventully and once it slips to much you might have to replace the crank pulley and any other pulleys that no longer grip.
I had that problem on the sunbird. New belts kept slipping and wearing because the pulleys wouldn't grab. Replaced pulleys with another new gates belt and good to go. :)

Also I'm glad I'm not working on that engine. Tight fit. Lol. :D


96 Beretta Z26 swap
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Rettax3
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Re: Finally...

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:05 pm

Some of the smoke is actually clearing up. It is still puffing a bit under boost, but just heavier loads it isn't doing it now... There is hope of a self-correction here! I more or less knew the water pump would be wetting the bed -it was original, and I never took the belt off this thing while it was sitting (bad, bad, bad -I really didn't think it would sit this long though, but still...)... But, although it would have been easier to replace it before the engine went in, I wanted to know what the in-bay replacement would be like. Besides, I had no interest in rebuilding a 60k mile engine, and if I start 'fixing' parts that weren't known-bad, where do I stop? So, no regrets here.

As for the belt, I literally could not put a shorter belt in there -I tried, and cannot slip it over the grooved pulleys. Close, but not quite. Unfortunately, the belt just doesn't have a lot of tension, and there is relatively little contact to the water-pump pulley. The smaller alternator pulley doesn't just change the belt length, it also changes the angle of the belt as it leaves the power steering pump and passes the water-pump. It isn't slipping, so far as I can tell, and seems to contact the other pulleys quite well.

As for impressions on driving, well, it hasn't left my neighborhood yet, so high-revving excitement hasn't happened. It does not have the low-end grunt that my GTU's 3800SC has, and mid-range isn't the same either. The GTU actually revs really well, and just over-torques everything on the way, this one pulls effortlessly, but not as hard. It is an RPM engine though, so time will tell the real difference here. I don't even have the inputs to the computer set to the higher 'Drive' redline yet -so it would shut-down before this thing hits peak power, and I haven't even crossed 4000 RPM yet. It does sound good though, except for the grumbling power steering pump...


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Finally...

Postby GT_Indy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:39 pm

Rettax3 wrote:Some of the smoke is actually clearing up. It is still puffing a bit under boost, but just heavier loads it isn't doing it now... There is hope of a self-correction here! I more or less knew the water pump would be wetting the bed -it was original, and I never took the belt off this thing while it was sitting (bad, bad, bad -I really didn't think it would sit this long though, but still...)... But, although it would have been easier to replace it before the engine went in, I wanted to know what the in-bay replacement would be like. Besides, I had no interest in rebuilding a 60k mile engine, and if I start 'fixing' parts that weren't known-bad, where do I stop? So, no regrets here.

As for the belt, I literally could not put a shorter belt in there -I tried, and cannot slip it over the grooved pulleys. Close, but not quite. Unfortunately, the belt just doesn't have a lot of tension, and there is relatively little contact to the water-pump pulley. The smaller alternator pulley doesn't just change the belt length, it also changes the angle of the belt as it leaves the power steering pump and passes the water-pump. It isn't slipping, so far as I can tell, and seems to contact the other pulleys quite well.

As for impressions on driving, well, it hasn't left my neighborhood yet, so high-revving excitement hasn't happened. It does not have the low-end grunt that my GTU's 3800SC has, and mid-range isn't the same either. The GTU actually revs really well, and just over-torques everything on the way, this one pulls effortlessly, but not as hard. It is an RPM engine though, so time will tell the real difference here. I don't even have the inputs to the computer set to the higher 'Drive' redline yet -so it would shut-down before this thing hits peak power, and I haven't even crossed 4000 RPM yet. It does sound good though, except for the grumbling power steering pump...


Why twin turbos instead of one big turbo with lots of boost?
lag?


96 Beretta Z26 swap
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Rettax3
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Re: Finally...

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:59 pm

GT_Indy wrote:Why twin turbos instead of one big turbo with lots of boost?
lag?

Huh? I mocked-up a twin turbo setup before I built the crossover pipe months ago, but I went with the single T-04 (big turbo) for simplicity, and because that turbo was just too big for the pushrod 3.4 in my '90 'Retta but was a good match-up for the DOHC LQ1... I have not (yet) built a twin-turbo Beretta... :pardon:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Finally...

Postby GT_Indy » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:53 am

Rettax3 wrote:
GT_Indy wrote:Why twin turbos instead of one big turbo with lots of boost?
lag?

Huh? I mocked-up a twin turbo setup before I built the crossover pipe months ago, but I went with the single T-04 (big turbo) for simplicity, and because that turbo was just too big for the pushrod 3.4 in my '90 'Retta but was a good match-up for the DOHC LQ1... I have not (yet) built a twin-turbo Beretta... :pardon:


Lol i probably missed that part.


96 Beretta Z26 swap
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Rettax3
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Re: Finally...

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:10 pm

It is time to update, and finish here. I Posted a new thread in "Members' Rides", since this is no longer a project-car (mostly), and is now a driveable Ride. The smoke has seemed to clear up, at least I haven't noticed it lately, even under boost. I finally got the manifold pressure gauge installed in the car, and she is currently running 9 pounds, a little higher than I intended, but it seems fine thusfar. I'll be monitoring carefully, until I am confident everything is okay though, but I didn't see any KR registering on my scan-tool, so I think I am okay. Idle is a bit of an issue though, it is 'hunting', revving between about 550 and 1400 RPM until the throttle is bumped, then it does it again after a few moments, especially cold. I think I just need to adjust the minimum idle set-screw, and see where that leads me. I have found (unfortunately) that shifting through the gears too quickly under boost leads to the clutch spinning, badly. So, it will be more careful, solid shifts until I get around to buying and installing something with more clamping force than my LUK. Even with the ceramic six-puck Stage-3 friction disc, it won't hold from a slip, but seems fine if fully engaged before laying into the throttle. I thought the tires would let go far quicker than the clutch, so I am happy with the tires, but overall disappointed. The power steering pump from the LQ1 still has a little groan to it while turning, but seems to have mostly worn back in for service, so I'll replace that if/when I need to, but not right now. I also need to install the transmission PRNDL switch bypass, so it won't cut the legs off this thing at 4200 (or so) RPM, but honestly, this thing moves, and I haven't found the rev-limiter yet. It will get really interesting when red-line is above 7,000...


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26


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