It all goes downhill at once!

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woody90gtz
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by woody90gtz »

Thanks, but they're cheap enough new I'll just buy em.


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IsaacHayes
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by IsaacHayes »

Traction in 1st?!?!? AHAHHA that would be awesome. Even traction in 2nd would be great.

Maybe I'll just settle for 7.5" wide 17" wheel and go with some sticky tires.. That size wheel is more available then 8".

From reviews on tire rack one guy got good life with them. But then again he may not drive them hard.

EDIT: Regarding pedal pressure feel, the other day my ABS went off cause it was went and I was entering a steep parking lot that was un-even (some of the places here you need a 4x4 rock crawler to drive!) and one of the wheels lifted probably from my stiff sway bars and the ABS pumped. It got stuck and then the pedal had virtually no travel and was very stiff. Still worked ok to stop, but felt different. Shut off the car and restarted so the ABS solenoids cycled and it was back to normal with a very soft pedal. Maybe the base has some issue with the ABS solenoids?


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...
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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Barry »

I don't know for sure. I really dislike the abs systems on these cars. But then again, they do work in emergencies like rain and snow. For track use I would definitely pull the fuse however.

I re-tuned my car this weekend. It now holds 12.5 AFR all the way to 6k and goes a little richer till 6.6k. The weird part is that I actually need to pull fuel from the upper part of the table to keep AFR's out of the 11's. This is either a FPR issue at high rpm, or theres some kind of weird turbulence in the intakes/heads. The wot fuel curve increases almost linear to 6k, then just flattens out. Maybe I'm just exceeding the limits of the stock cam....

^Anybody have any ideas on whats up with that? Its pretty interesting to me.

I also need to do some testing with shifting at 6600. My trans actually handles the 6600 1-2 with no issue. It gives me an occasional quick grind with a 6600 2-3 though. The issue with this is that it doesn't really pull hard above 6.2/6.3k. It makes me feel like I'm wasting time in that gear and I should shift, BUT shifting the 2-3 at 6600 leaves me in a good position in 3rd and it pulls very hard. Im just not sure if winding second out that far to get a better pull in third is worth it. I guess only track times will tell.

On to braking. I decided to push the stock brakes pretty hard this weekend to see how they do. I did a 120-0 pull and a 80-0 pull back to back, with only about 40 seconds in between. The 120-0 stopped hard, with no signs of fade until I was down to 15-10 mph. Then the 80-0 was even better, almost like the brakes like the heat. I guess I can saw I'm a believer in the powerslots... The base brakes fade hard on a 80-0 stop.

I currently have greenstuff front pads. I need to replace them, but I don't know what to upgrade to, or to even upgrade at all. They really work pretty well.


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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

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IsaacHayes wrote:Traction in 1st?!?!? AHAHHA that would be awesome. Even traction in 2nd would be great.

Maybe I'll just settle for 7.5" wide 17" wheel and go with some sticky tires.. That size wheel is more available then 8".

From reviews on tire rack one guy got good life with them. But then again he may not drive them hard.

EDIT: Regarding pedal pressure feel, the other day my ABS went off cause it was went and I was entering a steep parking lot that was un-even (some of the places here you need a 4x4 rock crawler to drive!) and one of the wheels lifted probably from my stiff sway bars and the ABS pumped. It got stuck and then the pedal had virtually no travel and was very stiff. Still worked ok to stop, but felt different. Shut off the car and restarted so the ABS solenoids cycled and it was back to normal with a very soft pedal. Maybe the base has some issue with the ABS solenoids?
These tires just bite, its nuts. They do like the warmer weather though. This weekend was in the 40's and 50's and it spins first again but its still pulling pretty hard as opposed to my old tires spinning first and second.

I was pretty depressed about it and was thinking about getting out of the front wheel drive game, but now im feeling differently.

Driving hard these tires MAY last 10k miles. I will rotate them often.


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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Asylum »

I have tried all over the place on the stock 3500 cam and have proven that anything over about 6200 RPM, even with the headers open, is just making noise and probably compromising the valve springs.


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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Barry »

I have comp springs though, thats why I figured I would give it a shot. Stock springs start floating around 6200, maybe even lower. It gets real noisy.


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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by IsaacHayes »

I plan to shift at 6 grand and will have the rev limiter set at like 6700 or so. I don't like things breaking. Should be fun enough. With the cam and all I should make power up to 6500 and beyond, but I figure 6 grand +/- a few RPM will be good enough.

Hmm Powerslots and green stuffs that good for back to back breaking? Mine fade pretty fast like you said after just 80-0.


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...
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3X00-Modified
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

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IsaacHayes wrote:I plan to shift at 6 grand and will have the rev limiter set at like 6700 or so. I don't like things breaking. Should be fun enough. With the cam and all I should make power up to 6500 and beyond, but I figure 6 grand +/- a few RPM will be good enough.

Hmm Powerslots and green stuffs that good for back to back breaking? Mine fade pretty fast like you said after just 80-0.
Black Hawk pads are the crap... if you don't mind cleaning your rims often... lol

As far as your fuel problem Barry, Does the MS have a PE type mode? I know in a stock ECM there is a PE mode that it reverts to in order to keep fueling rich at WOT, and there is also a PE enrichment vs time scale so it richness it up the longer its in PE mode, typically due to the higher RPM's and load put on the engine the extra fuel is needed.


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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Barry »

3X00-Modified wrote:
IsaacHayes wrote:I plan to shift at 6 grand and will have the rev limiter set at like 6700 or so. I don't like things breaking. Should be fun enough. With the cam and all I should make power up to 6500 and beyond, but I figure 6 grand +/- a few RPM will be good enough.

Hmm Powerslots and green stuffs that good for back to back breaking? Mine fade pretty fast like you said after just 80-0.
Black Hawk pads are the crap... if you don't mind cleaning your rims often... lol

As far as your fuel problem Barry, Does the MS have a PE type mode? I know in a stock ECM there is a PE mode that it reverts to in order to keep fueling rich at WOT, and there is also a PE enrichment vs time scale so it richness it up the longer its in PE mode, typically due to the higher RPM's and load put on the engine the extra fuel is needed.
No, not quite. It operates off a single fuel map that is used for idle, cruising, around town, and WOT. I will post some screen shots to make it easier.
Basically you set a fuel constant based on your injector size, engine cfm, HP, etc. Then all the values on the fuel table modify that number accordingly.
It is MAP vs RPM only for the base table. Of course there are modifiers added in for things like IAT, Coolant temp, Acceleration enrichment(tps based or map based) etc.

I am using 43psi 28lb/hr injectors at 55psi so they are a little over 30lb/min. I think I am hitting high 70's for duty cycle.


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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by 3X00-Modified »

Barry wrote: I am using 43psi 28lb/hr injectors at 55psi so they are a little over 30lb/min. I think I am hitting high 70's for duty cycle.
Which injectors?

Just remember, the 28lb trailblazer injectors require 63PSI


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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Barry »

I have series 1 3800sc ones. There the fat style like the 3100 ones not the pencil style.

Ill post some data tonight


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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by 99GaGT3X00 »

those are the same ones i had and still got.


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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Barry »

Okay. Heres a few screenshots of what I'm dealing with. They will not mean a lot unless your familiar with megalog and megasquirt.

Heres a 3d Model of my fuel table. It is rpm across the x axis, map across the y, and fuel values in the y axis.
Image
You can see in top right corner(WOT and 5500-6500 rpm) that it dips and flattens out... weird, but it works(kinda).
Heres a 2d version to see the numbers.
Image

Now heres a datalog. On the top graph I am showing AFR and RPM vs Time. The second graph is duty cycle, the third is TP and the last is MAP.
Image

The red bar represents 12.5 AFR. You can see where I drew it in on a 1-3 gear pull, reving to a little over 6.5k in first and second. Look how the afr's hold decently well, then they drop to high 11's.

In the fuel table you can see that fuel drops off by about 9% after 5500 rpms, however, duty cycle keeps increasing...

Something is up. If anyone wants my log ill send it out, but you need megalogviewer to view it.

So basically it comes down to 2 issues. 1, why does my motor require less fuel at 6500 than it does at 5500. and 2 why am I commanding a constant value and duty cycle is still growing? That is directly related to the fuel table values and should flatten off just like the table does... I cant think of anything else that would be affecting it...


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Barry
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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by Barry »

Heres another 1-3 pull that may be easier to see. Watch the blue line dip right at the end of every gear.
Image


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Re: It all goes downhill at once!

Post by 3X00-Modified »

I'm thinking on this one... Hold on... Comparing to my VE table to see what mine does around that area... Granted I have a MAF to counter act it.


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