New idea

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New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 5:14 pm

HEy, I was wondering what would happen if I tried to rig up a setup like this. Cut a hole in the bottom of my air box, and mount a computer cooling fan in there so I could flip a switch and kind of get an instant turbo charger.  Should I try this?
Any and all input is appreciated.



Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 5:28 pm

Quote (Jberetta @ April 07 2002,5:14)
HEy, I was wondering what would happen if I tried to rig up a setup like this. Cut a hole in the bottom of my air box, and mount a computer cooling fan in there so I could flip a switch and kind of get an instant turbo charger.  Should I try this?
Any and all input is appreciated.

??? I dont think that would work. Also if the fan is in the engine bay your just putting all that heat thats in the engine bay and making it go in the air box.
I just dont think this is a good idea,but you are trying so i'll give ya that. :D

Maybe if you cut a hole in the bottom run a fan under that. then run some kind of tube to make a ram air setup. You could use the fan at first since ram air isn't good till 40 or so. But then then fan might get in the way to like the tornado thing.



Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 5:29 pm

:)  Do you know how much air your car draws? Put your hand over the intake and have someone rev it. Let me tell you its much more than a little computer fan. It is even more than those electric turbo chargers.



Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 7:38 pm

We did a similar setup, except using the heater blower sealed into a cookie tin, with a 2" diameter pvc hose coming off ot it at a tangent.  This was one he11 of a blower.  It would deform your face if you put it up to it.  We didn't notice any performance increases with it mounted and blowing directly into the the airbox, but the space was VERY limited with the hood closed, and there was only hot air to be pushed in.  We are going to try relocating the battery, and setting the blower there with a cold air intake feeding it.  We also need to rig up a toggle switch so it dosen't run full time, all without hurting performance when it is not in use.



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Canada
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New idea

Postby Canada » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:30 pm

A homemade blower isn't going to work. You just can't blow enough cfm. Here's some math to prove my point.

I'm useing my 3100 for the numbers.

Beings that it is a six cylinder, four stroke engine, half the cylinders would draw in air every rotation of the crank.

So,
.5 the cylinders * 192 cu.i. = 96 cu.i./r

If the engine is running at peak horse, 155 hp @ 5200 rpm then,
96 cu.i. * 5200 rpm = 499,200 cu.i. of air per min.

1728 cu.i. = 1 cu.f.

So,
499,200 cu.i./min = 289 cfm.

Compare 289 cfm to the rating on your computer fan, if it is even rated at all.

Just think of the cfm it would take to create boost.

There are a few things to remember, I assumed that the engine could "breathe" and "exhale" 100% effectively, so actual numbers could be lower. Hence the importance of porting and polishing. Also, 3 cylinders may not fire every revolution, it maybe 2, then 4. But it averages out. I got some of the facts from 60degreev6.com.

Also remember how small the throttle body is, 52 mm. I could of figured the velocity of the entering the engine, but didn't feel like it, you would be quite surprised.

Electric motors are nowere near 100% efficencey aither. It would take a good amount of electricity to turn a 2.5" fan fast enough to produce enough cfm. This is why blowers are either crank driven or ehxaust driven.

Double check my math too.



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Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:40 pm

Quote (Canada @ April 08 2002,6:30)
A homemade blower isn't going to work. You just can't blow enough cfm. Here's some math to prove my point.

I'm useing my 3100 for the numbers.

Beings that it is a six cylinder, four stroke engine, half the cylinders would draw in air every rotation of the crank.

So,
.5 the cylinders * 192 cu.i. = 96 cu.i./r

If the engine is running at peak horse, 155 hp @ 5200 rpm then,
96 cu.i. * 5200 rpm = 499,200 cu.i. of air per min.

1728 cu.i. = 1 cu.f.

So,
499,200 cu.i./min = 289 cfm.

I took this into consideration as well, but those numbers are way too high.  You have to remember that with the bottle necks throughout the intake, you are going to create a vacuum in each cylinder instead of completely filling it.  That is why you will not actually flow 289cfm.  If you did, then there would be no advantage to cone filters, larger throttle bodies, ported heads and manifolds, etc, because the cylinders are as full as they can be without boost, or added pressure.

In light of this, a homemade blower could work, just as ram air does.  You just are not likely to build up BOOST!



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New idea

Postby Canada » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:53 pm

Quote (Canada @ April 08 2002,7:30)
There are a few things to remember, I assumed that the engine could "breathe" and "exhale" 100% effectively, so actual numbers could be lower. Hence the importance of porting and polishing.


Quote (gtzpower @ April 08 2002, 7:40)
You have to remember that with the bottle necks throughout the intake, you are going to create a vacuum in each cylinder instead of completely filling it.  That is why you will not actually flow 289cfm.  If you did, then there would be no advantage to cone filters, larger throttle bodies, ported heads and manifolds, etc...


Exactly, but what's the difference between theoretical and actual induction, I have no clue, do you? And what is the flow rate on a homemade job? If its below actual, its going to hurt and above, helpful. Also, what cfm rating is required to make a difference? Don't forget the electrical draw on the engine too.

On a side note, gtzpower, what do you do for a living? (I don't mean to be an as$hole, just curious.)



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New idea

Postby gar187er » Mon Apr 08, 2002 8:53 pm

i think its a waste of a computer fan!! i could use another in my case!!!! i already have 9...why not make it 10....  :p

but honestly , it would just get in the way.....it produces just enough air flow to cool an amplifier slightly....but to help with air flow?? why not just by a cone...or open your airbox up?


--Ryan--



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Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:03 pm

Quote
Also remember how small the throttle body is, 52 mm. I could of figured the velocity of the entering the engine, but didn't feel like it, you would be quite surprised.


Another thing, if you did figure this out, which i don't feel like doing either  :p  you would see that it could not possibly flow that much and still have your air filter in one peice.



Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:17 pm

Quote (Canada @ April 08 2002,7:30)
There are a few things to remember, I assumed that the engine could "breathe" and "exhale" 100% effectively, so actual numbers could be lower. Hence the importance of porting and polishing.


Sorry, i missed that part i guess ???

Also, we both agree that it COULD be helpful as i stated, depending on how well it is set up.  I am not saying that a computer fan will help though, i know that would far from the truth unless it is a model airplane. ÂÂÂ

Quote
On a side note, gtzpower, what do you do for a living? (I don't mean to be an as$hole, just curious.)


I work in the field of PC technical support for products such as samsung computer products, sharp laptops and computer products, hitachi, kyocera optics, toshiba, and phillips.  Nothing great, but i am only 19 and still working my way up. ÂÂÂ

If you call the aj printer tech support line for sharp right now, there is a 1 in 3 chance you will be talking to me.   ;)



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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:19 pm

Quote (ericm555 @ April 08 2002,4:29)
:)  Do you know how much air your car draws? Put your hand over the intake and have someone rev it. It is even more than those electric turbo chargers.

I beg to differ.


To everyone,
Ask yourself this question.
What is the most restrictive part of the intake?


Kyle
2003 VW New Beetle

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Canada
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New idea

Postby Canada » Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:20 pm

Quote (gtzpower @ April 08 2002,8:17)
Also, we both agree that it COULD be helpful as i stated, depending on how well it is set up.

Definately, but look at what it would take.

I am a freshman majoring in ag engineering. I work with hydralics, GPS, and diesel engine design.



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Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:26 pm

Quote (Canada @ April 08 2002,7:20)
Definately, but look at what it would take.

I am a freshman majoring in ag engineering. I work with hydralics, GPS, and diesel engine design.

http://www.solar-components.com/fans.htm ÂÂÂ

It wouldn't take anything major to flow enough cfm to be helpful. ÂÂÂ However, i agree for boost, you are looking at much more.  That is just the first one i could find, if you want i could spend some time to find a small highflow 12v blower.



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New idea

Postby Canada » Mon Apr 08, 2002 9:35 pm

Did you see the required opening? The small one was 25 sq inches! Just because it blows that much air with that big of a hole, doesn't mean its going to do that when its blowing down your throttle body.



-2007 Saturn Sky Redline
-2007 Chevrolet Silverado Classic 2500HD
-2006 Chevrolet Impala SS
-1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
-1996 Chevrolet Beretta

Guest

New idea

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 08, 2002 10:12 pm

Quote (Canada @ April 08 2002,7:35)
Did you see the required opening? The small one was 25 sq inches! Just because it blows that much air with that big of a hole, doesn't mean its going to do that when its blowing down your throttle body.

5x5.5 inches is not too big, the air filter is bigger than that.  As i am sure you already know, if you had to reduce the size of a passage, and you increase the velocity.  So you just have air flowing a little bit faster at the tb, which will still reduce the cfm, i agree.  There is really no sense in arguing about it anymore though since neither of us truely know what the actual cfm of the intake is through the tb at max rpm, and that makes it hard to prove that a specific item would push more cfm.




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