New idea

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Canada
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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:10 am

Looks right to me, the math that is.



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Canada
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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:39 am

I can only repeat myself so many times. Someone that has a knowledge of blowers could start backin' me here. I'd like to know how many cfm's are blown with a turbo running at 2 pounds.

The only way I will believe that those electricsuperchargers work is if I see one and ride in it.

Also, I'm afraid that IF it did work, and then the manifolds were to be ported, you'd out flow the glorifed ceiling fan.



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New idea

Postby Guest » Tue Apr 09, 2002 10:50 am

The problem is that the fan has to flow more than the engine or it will be a restriction in the intake. Electric blowers are so inefficient that you would need too much power to get any real HP gain.



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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:35 am

Were do you guys get this stuff???

Canada, did you get to physics 1 or 2 classes yet in school? How about problem solving? There's lots of physics in that. If you haven't, wait til you do and all of your questions and any body elses will be answered. ;)


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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:37 am

Quote (3100SFI @ April 09 2002,10:35)
Were do you guys get this stuff???

The fans? The technical information?



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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:41 am

The technical info.


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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 11:50 am

Some is from websites, 60degreev6.com. Some other stuff is a good guess or round about figure. The math I used is just a basic thought process.

I took some physics in high school, I'm in entry level physics in college right now, just the basics. I've taken lots of problem solving courses in high school and college. Thats what my major is. I take a piece of equpiment, break it, and figure out why it broke. Then I figure out how to make it better.

I know nothing compared to some people. (i.e. BIGBULS)



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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:01 pm

Quote
I took some physics in high school, I'm in entry level physics in college right now, just the basics. I've taken lots of problem solving courses in high school and college. Thats what my major is. I take a piece of equpiment, break it, and figure out why it broke. Then I figure out how to make it better.

Good. So you're considering the fact that there is a restriction in the intake that will kill the effect of the fan? And if you opened up the intake, then the fan will not keep up?

Where's the most restriction in the intake at? Have you answered that yet?
Quote
I know nothing compared to some people. (i.e. BIGBULS)

Don't worry, you will know just as much as him in time. ;) Possibly more. Not sure what he studied.


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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:07 pm

I guess the most the restrictive part of the intake would be the filter.

What has BIGBULS studied? formally? he's going to be a science teacher or something to that effect. Other than that he has read a lot and he is just into cars, a ####load. But hey, when your as old as he is, you can learn a lot.



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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:14 pm

The filter??? An extremely dirty one maybe. But not if it's clean. Lets assume the filter is perfectly clean. Keep thinking. Were is the most restricted area of the intake at?


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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 12:46 pm

Enlighten me.



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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Tue Apr 09, 2002 1:44 pm

Speaking from the 3100, the intake valve area would be the most restrictive. There can be two open at once (partial three maybe???). The TB, MAF sensor, the small opening by the battery, and the air filter can outflow both of those valve areas.

The TB, MAF sensor, the small opening by the battery, and the filter are all restrictive by not only size, but the fact that the air encounters obstacles and has to change direction which requires more force.

The opened valve areas, together, are smaller than any of these and also has to change direction.

If you buy a new cam that has a higher lift and have a stock set-up, it will add hp. If you have a stock cam and buy a K&N filter, it will add hp. Why? Because that is one more less obstacle to encounter therefore less force is needed to draw air in which means less work for the engine. ANY OBSTACLE WILL REQUIRE MORE FORCE TO OVERCOME THE OBSTACLE WHICH IN TURN MAKES THE ENGINE WORK. F=MA ;)

Now in the case of the E-ram, when I put that on, I fastened it to the MAF sensor and had a cone filter on the other end. I got rid of that small opening by the battery and had a K&N filter which is two less obstacles.
Now as you said earlier the e-ram has a power draw in which the engine has to make up. And again as you said earlier the alternator is not 100% efficient. Guess what? That's more work to make force. But the e-ram has taken the work away of drawing air in and then some, up to the intake valve anyway. This is were your power gain is.

Even though the engine has no more work of drawing air in from the valve on back, it still has to draw air into the cylinder from the valve opening. On the intak stroke, that piston moves so darn fast in the down direction that air cannot keep up. Air can only flow so fast through that little opening and it has to change directionas well. So when that piston is all the way down, with the intake valve closed, there is still low pressure in the cylinder. Compression is what makes high pressure. That is one of the reasons quads have lots of power. They have less work to do there because of more valves.

I feel like I'm forgeting something, but can't think of it right now. Hopefully I'll think of it later. ???


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New idea

Postby gar187er » Tue Apr 09, 2002 6:29 pm

most restrictive, prob a combo of the TB and the intake plenum...at least stock anyway...

besides your engine doesnt pull air in...its not working to get air...it takes whatever is around the filter....its not theoretically working at all...thats what your talkign about doing, is adding a device, IE a blower or a turbo to PULL the air in.....

the electric supercharger seems like waste of a few hundred bucks, for maybe 1 psi of boost.....hell you could get more gains my adding some w41 heads, and with those, you wouldnt get laughed at for having them..... :D


yes these are some good ideas...but why not go for an actually performance part...IE an actual turbo!  :)





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New idea

Postby 3100SFI » Tue Apr 09, 2002 7:00 pm

Quote
besides your engine doesnt pull air in...its not working to get air...it takes whatever is around the filter....its not theoretically working at all...thats what your talkign about doing, is adding a device, IE a blower or a turbo to PULL the air in.....

It theoretically is doing work. It is using vacuum to draw air into the cylinder. Work needs to be done in or to create a vacuum here on earth. The air is also being pushed in by the pressure of the atmosphere (excluding the e-ram). So the earth (gravity) is also doing work.

So the engine creates (works) low pressure in the cylinder (vacuum or suction- drawn in) causing the atmospheric pressure (gravity, wieght of atmosphere) to push air into the cylinder. Where there is suction, there is pressure- here on earth.


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New idea

Postby Canada » Tue Apr 09, 2002 7:31 pm

Ok, so here is what you said...

-Higher pressure moves to lower pressures. This is the idea of suction, a difference of pressure.

-An engine draws in air because atmospheric pressure is above cylinder pressure when the crank is at BDC.

-The e-ram makes it easier for the engine to create power because it raises manifold pressures.

OK so here is what I think...

I know how an engine works. You don't have to retell me.

Show me some numbers on about the e-ram. Quarter times, hp curves whatever. Mods can have a placebo effect to them. Don't believe me? I have a set of yellow type-r stickers that add 20 hp that I will sell you.



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