WOT-TECH header feedback..

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Barry
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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Barry » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:30 pm

I gots headers for sale for much cheaper, and similar quality (bolts dont fit, must use studs)



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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Alpinestar10 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:56 pm

[QUOTE=ForcedFirebird;406164]
You see, I just can't grasp the idea that you guys are paying for a set of headers, then paying to have them modified (if the user doesn't have the ability/tools) when you can just buy bolt-on's from the beginning.
![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ForcedFirebird;409970]We are figuring the TIG'd sets will be $600[/QUOTE]

To me either they cheaped out and used a mig welder to do the headers or the welder needs a little practice, per comments from woody and jon that they are mig even though They are supposed to be tig


And the first part makes it sound like they should have just bolted on R&R remove and replace not R&M&R Remove Modify Replace.



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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Bman Gtz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:48 pm

I will admit, mine look ok but I waited well over a year for them, have yet to put them on but I really hope not to run into any problems or I will be pissed. John kept in touch on a fairly regular basis but I got the feeling that the headers were simply a side project and only got attention when there was free time available. I really hope they work well and that I can recommend them to people but I also really hope the company gets their timing better as I found it to be ridiculously long.


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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby ErichZ26 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:04 pm

woody90gtz wrote:Dimple the tube to fit the bolt. My S&S headers had slight dimples in a couple places for just that reason. Those MIG welds dont look that bad to me. I'd run 'em.


dimples should have been done already.


Either they don't do this full time..or are simply swamped with orders.


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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby 3X00-Modified » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:05 pm

I'm defending the fact that you purchased a damn BETA r&d product that carries NO time frame on completion and it was stated multiple times they were a side project and at that same time WOT-tech moved from WI to FL in that time frame and switched shops in FL as well to get more space to make these products. This isn't a friken Honda everything is hand made which means your at the mercy of the seller or you have to make it yourself.

It's like you think WOT-tech is a fully staffed company, realize it's 2-3 guys with a passion for these engines offering their experience and expertise when they don't have to.

I know this is a feedback forum but to complain about wires wrapped on the flanges after demanding delivery or he was taking legal action is just picking at the small crap for no reason.

Be happy you even have headers that will fit with such little changes not many of us have even that option.



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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby 3400beretta » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:07 pm

Knowing the build quality of your car, and your attention to detail, there is no way that you would have accepted those headers as is. It looks like a fucking retard painted them. If those are supposed to be TIG welds the guy has no idea what he is doing. And as Alpine quoted from john himself, the whole idea behind them is they are supposed to be BOLT ON. And for a year in development they bloody well better be!

So I ask you Jon, what have they sent you for free, for you to be defending them so?



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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Alpinestar10 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:24 pm

You are aware jon that ben did not make these headers correct so saying that it was in the time from when wot-tech relocated is nothing john from condor speed shop made these if i remeber correct... And the beta sets were made in 2009 according to this thread http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread. ... dy+headers so they should have been able to produce them in a couple months like they did with the first run of j body headers started in janurary 2010 ended in like august at the lastest



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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Forced_Firebird » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:37 am

WOT-Tech and Condor Speed Shop are two different entities. While, yes, we are on the racing team, they have nothing to do with each other as far as business is concerned.

You ordered in April 15th after begging Ben to sell them to you, I told him don't take any more orders, but you wouldn't leave him alone about it. It was a surprise to me, even, when he came to the new shop while I was running conduit for our equipment and told me he allowed you in on the group buy, even though we were only on month in to our two month move (galvi air lines, electric, floor coating, lift, welder, blaster installation etc etc).

The sets are made on a block, they fit, but a bolt will go in if you insert the bolt before putting them on the block. It's not rocket science.

The "hangers" aren't hangers, those are to mark the sets since we coated several at once. Each set is custom and the front/rears cannot be interchanged between sets. The flanges and ball joint flanges have enough holes to hang them by.

As far as the welds, I have hand built 13 custom turbo kits using the same process for everything and we are winning races and none have cracked. Maybe we should spend more time on the race team and less time working on things that you will complain about.

Obviously you have never held a set of Hooker, Hedman, or any other production performance header in your hand, or you would be fine with my welds, they are TIG'd. These other "high quality" companies hire welders that like to dip tungsten in the welds and look far worse, and the coatings all have runs in them IT DOESN'T AFFECT PERFORMANCE. They don't have to be pretty to be solid.

So, here I go, yes in my spare time WHILE HAVING ANOTHER FULL TIME JOB, and design a nice set of headers for a dying breed of car, and all you have to do is complain? It takes me 28-30hrs to build them and over $300 in materials, do the math. Fortunately in the last few months, I have been able to resign from my VP position at my old construction company to go to the shop full time.

The coating was free to the BETA's, this was a mistake, it adds too much work. Complain all you want, but the first set I built/coated (and MIG'd) are still holding up. Are you concerned about some runs, really?

The people complaining don't like Ben, WOT-Tech or me for some reason, that's fine. Put them on your car and PROVE that they "hurt" performance, you absolutely will not be able to prove that. The primaries are oversize, and even though mandrel bends were used, they still don't match up perfectly, but, OH YEAH, you knew that from almost 20yrs experience of building cars like I have, right? Oh wait, how many complaining are even over 20?

These are for performance, period. ANY header you buy from anywhere will require moving or items, cursing during installation, and sometimes modifications.



If you don't like the work, find someone else making them for you, and doing their best to do a good job.

Good Luck.

Oh and to those that are bashing ME...

Barry, I read your RWD build thread last month, before bashing me, look at your welds. They look like the local chop shop (er, I mean 240/drifter shop) did them. Hope your car stays together on the track. Re-look at the first pic Slinky posted and tell me those are MIG. Last car I welded subframes to are on the table of contents this month in Grassroots Motorsports Mag after taking 5th place in the Auto-x against 50 cars in Gainsville last Oct.

Alpine, you and Ben had a disagreement after you sold parts promised to him, has nothing to do with me or the header project I started before joining WOT-Tech. You complain but you can't keep your word, either.

3400Beretta, glad you know all about bman, he has had his headers for months, let's see how "retarded" you look when working with ceramic, it's a pain and why these are the last sets getting coated in-house.

Anyone else has bad things to say, build your own headers, put your heap on a dyno and prove that they are better. Obviously some people won't be happy unless they are shiny OBX Chinese-made headers that look beautiful, yet don't hold, fit, leak, perform or all of the above.

Slinky, you told Ben you were going to do this. Hopefully some of the other 10 sets sold to date will also give reviews.


Old motor: 3.1 iron head turbo
Under construction: 3.4RWD/3500 hybrid 11.5:1SCR, ported/polished, 300adv dur cam, yellow springs, fabricated headers, Clevite Bearing, Mellings oil pump...
Future projects: 3.1/3400, and 3.4/3500 twin turbo

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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby scd88ga » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:02 pm

Forced_Firebird wrote:The sets are made on a block, they fit, but a bolt will go in if you insert the bolt before putting them on the block. It's not rocket science.

It takes me 28-30hrs to build them and over $300 in materials, do the math.

Anyone else has bad things to say, build your own headers, put your heap on a dyno and prove that they are better.


WOW is all I can say! For a so-called businessman you are certainly full of excuses for your shitty quality product! If you were done making headers and didn't want to make more you could have simply just said no! Or you could have asked him to wait to place his order instead of taking his money and sitting on it! If you can't handle your work-load, then DON"T take as much work! It's simple business knowledge!

It takes 28-30 hours to build them, NOT 10 months, do the math!

All of us on BNET loves our "dying breed heaps", that's the reason we are here! We don't need a cocky disrespectful ass like you to run your mouth like that!

I have never bought from you and NEVER plan to! GROW THE HELL UP!

In business, the customer always comes FIRST! Get with the program or just give up!

:fool:


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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Slinky » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:14 pm

Again, i did not start this thread as an argument or discussion, its simply feedback to the poor quality parts i received, ok so overlook all the cosmetic flaws that could have easily been prevented by WOT-TECH as well as the bolt not fitting and look and this, its a pic of the many mis-matched pipes on the inside of the headers that will restrict and stop good flow.

They market these headers as MANDREL bent, but if you look close with the mismatches ect i probably would be better off with press bent because their alignment/welding is so shotty.. I wasted my money, and also my time waiting..

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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby SappySE107 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:11 pm

Your opinions have all been noted. Thanks!



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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Forced_Firebird » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:12 pm

scd88ga wrote:
Forced_Firebird wrote:The sets are made on a block, they fit, but a bolt will go in if you insert the bolt before putting them on the block. It's not rocket science.

It takes me 28-30hrs to build them and over $300 in materials, do the math.

Anyone else has bad things to say, build your own headers, put your heap on a dyno and prove that they are better.


WOW is all I can say! For a so-called businessman you are certainly full of excuses for your shitty quality product! If you were done making headers and didn't want to make more you could have simply just said no! Or you could have asked him to wait to place his order instead of taking his money and sitting on it! If you can't handle your work-load, then DON"T take as much work! It's simple business knowledge!

It takes 28-30 hours to build them, NOT 10 months, do the math!

All of us on BNET loves our "dying breed heaps", that's the reason we are here! We don't need a cocky disrespectful ass like you to run your mouth like that!

I have never bought from you and NEVER plan to! GROW THE HELL UP!

In business, the customer always comes FIRST! Get with the program or just give up!

:fool:


Have nothing against Berettas had one in HS and my sister sold it in 93, and why I still have a soft spot for them. "Put your heap on a dyno" slang has been around longer than you. You are twisting my words. If you never bought anything from us, then you have no place saying anything. Slinky was told he was last in line and the completion date was far away. Him and Ben went back and forth, he is mad at Ben and the reason he's picking flaws.

28-30hrs per set times 10. Ask one of your members how long it took for them to make ONE set. About 10mo.

Where did you see excuses?


Old motor: 3.1 iron head turbo
Under construction: 3.4RWD/3500 hybrid 11.5:1SCR, ported/polished, 300adv dur cam, yellow springs, fabricated headers, Clevite Bearing, Mellings oil pump...
Future projects: 3.1/3400, and 3.4/3500 twin turbo

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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Forced_Firebird » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:17 pm

Slinky wrote:Again, i did not start this thread as an argument or discussion, its simply feedback to the poor quality parts i received, ok so overlook all the cosmetic flaws that could have easily been prevented by WOT-TECH as well as the bolt not fitting and look and this, its a pic of the many mis-matched pipes on the inside of the headers that will restrict and stop good flow.

They market these headers as MANDREL bent, but if you look close with the mismatches ect i probably would be better off with press bent because their alignment/welding is so shotty.. I wasted my money, and also my time waiting..

Image


Obviously, you have never worked with mandrel bends. They are the same OD, NOT ID. The pipe walls thin the tighter the bends, so when you add a piece of straight pipe to a bend (or tighter radius), the inner diameters will not match. Buy a piece of pipe and cut it in half, this will be confirmed. Since you have 3yrs experience welding, then you should know this already (hard to believe when you graduated HS in 09).

You are nit-picking since you had a spat with Ben, the headers will perform, if you think otherwise, I'll say it again, PROVE IT.


Old motor: 3.1 iron head turbo
Under construction: 3.4RWD/3500 hybrid 11.5:1SCR, ported/polished, 300adv dur cam, yellow springs, fabricated headers, Clevite Bearing, Mellings oil pump...
Future projects: 3.1/3400, and 3.4/3500 twin turbo

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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Slinky » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:47 pm

Tell me again how i dont have 3 years of welding experience, and also try to say im not a machinist..

Everything i have said/posted and will say/post is the truth

The disrespect was on both ends, including your company which i believe will fall if you dont start treating paying custumers with respect...

Now it your turn to prove i "Begged" ben to make my headers, which i never did, i placed the order like everyone was else and waited way longer than i should have..

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Re: WOT-TECH header feedback..

Postby Forced_Firebird » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:57 pm

Slinky wrote:Tell me again how i dont have 3 years of welding experience, and also try to say im not a machinist..

Everything i have said/posted and will say/post is the truth

The disrespect was on both ends, including your company which i believe will fall if you dont start treating paying custumers with respect...

Now it your turn to prove i "Begged" ben to make my headers, which i never did, i placed the order like everyone was else and waited way longer than i should have..

Image


You said you have 3yrs experience welding, not 3yrs of welding school.

He told you it would be a long time, you didn't care at the time. This is all old news. You were offered a refund +$50 for your trouble (our competitor told the customer in the previous post NO). You declined then changed your mind. He was going to refund you then, but you said not unless you got the extra $50, so I carried on with the building of the headers.

Should it have taken this long, no. Did we take too many orders, yes. That's in the past and I am fabricating full time at the shop, not just going in eves. They have a 4-6 week delivery date from here on out.

I got upset at the personal attacks because people have a vendetta against Ben. No, we don't give Jon anything to get our back, he just knows we are 2 guys trying to please many. This was a prototype/custom project, everyone was told the situation, then got upset when it was a reality.


Old motor: 3.1 iron head turbo
Under construction: 3.4RWD/3500 hybrid 11.5:1SCR, ported/polished, 300adv dur cam, yellow springs, fabricated headers, Clevite Bearing, Mellings oil pump...
Future projects: 3.1/3400, and 3.4/3500 twin turbo


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