Front hub fail

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Money pit Beretta
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Re: Front hub fail

Postby Money pit Beretta » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:11 pm

Oh boy....bet that is where my problem is. Man those things cost a lot. Kind of did what you did. Replaced the sensors, wheel bearings and even went as far as replacing the brake controller. Also tried to make sure the gap on the front sensors was the same with a feeler gauge.
Got to ask: was the caliper dragging on the side with the pitting? Do you use brake grease?

Sometimes the pads have little pits. When one drags the gases get trapped in the pits and super heat. They can form a jet and eat the rotor. Kind of like what happens to a boat propeller during cavitation. Disregard my statement in the last post, it could happen to any rotor. Happened to a slotted rotor on my car. Yes the slots act as vents, but only in that area.
If I can find the time to get Flicker and take a photo I'll post it. Really it just looks the same as yours.


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Re: Front hub fail

Postby EPfiffner » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:31 am

Wow! Good you found it. Looks like our enemy road salt strikes again. Was the bearing assy rusted in to the axle, or did it come out OK?
It'll definitely be nice to have the ABS functional.
As for the rotors, I'm pretty jealous of the mill shown above. I didn't realize any big box parts stores still surfaced rotors, but it looks like you can do your own just fine!



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby ifixalot » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:02 pm

"Got to ask: was the caliper dragging on the side with the pitting? Do you use brake grease?"

I use grease on the backing of the pads if included with the pads and also on the caliper pins making sure they slide
nice. My brakes felt fine but when my ABS started acting up, I started inspecting what might be causing the problem.
I don't think there was dragging but the inside pad had more wear than the outside. But since they were lifetime warranty,
the store swapped them free. But I found I had ceramic pads and they swapped for a lessor pad because my size wasn't in stock.
So later, they gave me the correct ceramic pads but that wasn't my problem.
I was getting an intermittent ABS light and then a pulse or two at 3mph when coming to a stop on dry pavement.
I thought maybe the extra vibration was causing extra pulses to be seen by the ABS module.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby ifixalot » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:16 pm

EPfiffner wrote:Wow! Good you found it. Looks like our enemy road salt strikes again. Was the bearing assy rusted in to the axle, or did it come out OK?
It'll definitely be nice to have the ABS functional.
As for the rotors, I'm pretty jealous of the mill shown above. I didn't realize any big box parts stores still surfaced rotors, but it looks like you can do your own just fine!


Rust from 24 years of salt and water, not bad considering how old it is.
No that hub and bearing was very stubborn. What I had to do to get it out was I bolted the bad front hub to the rear hub face to face.
Then I stuck a 4 piece of pipe in the hole where the axle splines are and wiggled back and forth and finally the hub came loose form the
rear axle. But it was stuck to the back plate. So I had to use a small crow bar to pry the back plate away while I had the whole back-plate assembly supported by a bungee cord hooked to the shock because all that was holding it was the brake-line. I put it all back together
until I get the new hub next week.
O'reily's still claims they turn rotors and drums but it actually looks more like just a ploy to get you in the store.
Yeah having a mill is nice. At least I was able to prove the guy was mistaken about how deep the rust was.
Mill is leftover along with a bunch of other machines I used to use when I had a business. I need to get rid
of all this stuff I've had taking up space since 2005. I sold one machine this spring but they don't bring much money these days.
But is is nice to have when I need to machine something.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby EPfiffner » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 am

Sheesh, fought ya the whole way. Ingenious method though, work with what ya got!
I'm with you on the aftermarket parts such as rotors being cheap steel, but maybe we're wrong, who knows.
Do you have a phase converter for the mill?



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby ifixalot » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:34 am

Yup, I have a rotary convertor which is wired up to power all the machines but not all at the same time.
I had heard the capacitor type convertors are ok but the motor will run at a lot less than full power.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby EPfiffner » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:19 am

Cool, sounds like you have a nice shop setup.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby Money pit Beretta » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:50 pm

You have the brake grease covered. Sounds like there was still a bit of dragging, I had it too. Makes me think that rubber where the pin rides is dried out and makes the grease less effective. Could be soaking some up.

Got to look for my old front hubs. LOL on the 90GT the only way the rears came off was from me jumping up and down on them(off the car on the garage floor). Tried Liquid Wrench, all kinds of hammers and a torch. Had pulled one off and needed to get the car back on the road to go to work. I was really freaking out! Man that backing plate was rust welded on there.


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Re: Front hub fail

Postby ifixalot » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:42 am

I too soaked my assembly with penetrating oil and took several hours/tries to get it all apart. At one point, I bolted a brake drum on and tried
pounding it with a soft mallet but that didn't work.
I got my new hub and it took no time to install. ABS works fine now. I took a look at the other side inside the axle and it is very rusty.
I sprayed it with oil spray until I can get to it and loosen it up for preparation of anew one. It's too bad they don't seem to make the "can"
that rusts away. My hub is fine, it's just the can that went bad.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby EPfiffner » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:50 am

Nice! Good you have the ABS working again. Yeah all you really needed was that sheet metal cap.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby Money pit Beretta » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:28 pm

No grinding noise out of my rears. So those hubs are just fine. Damn that can...got to be the problem. ABS is unplugged until better weather. When the ice is gone it will be plugged back in. It's just fine in a straight line, just not on low speed turns. That is a real danger!
Glad one of us has a working system. Sucks to have the black cloud of a looming repair for the rest of winter.


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Re: Front hub fail

Postby woody90gtz » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:48 pm

Pretty sweet that you have a mill in your shop. What else do you have? I can use the mill and lathe etc at my work which is sweet, but they had a ton more stuff 20yrs ago that they got rid of.

I just got a pair of front Timken bearings that are made in China. I bought old stock ACDelcos for the rear that are USA made though.

As Jon mentioned I got ABS ones so I can hopefully retrofit it to my car. ABS was introduced in 92 so i don't have the computer or wiring or any of that stuff. So that might be a bitch. But my knuckles are 92+ so it has the sensor mount and I just need to press or tack the reluctor rings on my axles. I'm going to do the PITA driver side while it's apart. Just gotta get the ring off my spare 92+ axle. Get as much done as I can now so it's just an electrical swap if I can find a donor car.

Gonna be a fair amount of work, but locking all 4 makes it hard to steer.


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Re: Front hub fail

Postby ifixalot » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:46 am

I have two mills, one is a tracer mill, I have a 6 x 12 surface grinder, small lathe, EDM sinker, Deckel panto-graph engraver, Deckel copy mill,
cutter grinders and small band-saw. I was in my own, one man, home based business for myself for 23 years. As more manufacturing moved
offshore and CNC took over, I got less and less work until it died off in 2005. The machines were paid for so I didn't need to sell to pay off debt.
But really I should get rid of them. I don't use them enough to justify the space they occupy.
I would expect if your Timken's are made in China, they should still be good quality. Initially, stuff from China was crap but they've improved.
I haven't looked at my Beretta front ABS. I didn't realize there is a reluctor ring on the axle. My mini van has integral ABS sensor. That will be a nice project to swap ABS on a non ABS car. I wouldn't mind having that on my 88 Beretta but that's too big a project for me. I'm retired but I always seem busy doing some other project that comes up.
I've been driving so many years without ABS. I find that I don't really cause the system to take over the brakes very often. I guess I have a good feel and I don't panic if I skid, I just adjust. Or, I've just been lucky so far.



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Re: Front hub fail

Postby Rettax3 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:09 am

Try Bosch rotors too. Oreillys sells them (but seriously, get them from Rock Auto -look at the price difference). They DID offer a lifetime warranty -last year they switched to a three year. I bought them for several of my cars -some are installed, some are sitting in the boxes waiting to be needed. Bosch offered $10 per rotor rebate a few times, and with the jobber price I could buy them for, they were CHEAP. I paid about $20 a piece for my Z-24... Bosch rotors are completely coated in epoxy, or equivalent. NAPA also offers Bosch rotors for many applications, interestingly though they rebox them, and charge more... %) They have another brand that is coated, but they aren't as good.

I did buy some Oreilly rotors for one of our Toyotas last year, and my '89 Camaro's 9-bolt rear axle, but again it was at a discount, and with a rebate. All told, I paid about $15 each, and these were also painted (not as tough as the Bosch coating though) inside the vented area and hub area, so they are upgrading in SOME applications. Oreillys just buys whatever brand, and has them reboxed to their 'Brake Best' and 'BB Select' brand now, so you never know who really made them.

On your old hub, Jon has it nailed exactly. Defective part, the hardened area simply cracked and chipped away -possibly an occlusion stuck behind it giving it a weak spot waiting to fail, possibly an improper hardening. I am trying the higher-end product line from Mevotech for wheel-bearings and some other suspension parts. They are a Canadian-based company. Also available on Rock Auto, some local stores carry them now, like Baxter Auto Parts. The high-end stuff is made either in Canada or now in Chinese factories that THEY RUN, as opposed to Chinese factories run in China then sold and re-labeled by someone here. I have become unhappy with a lot of Moog products -they are overpriced for their quality, which isn't bad, but isn't fantastic either. Store brand can be a good value, but just isn't going to last as long.


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