To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

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zcylex
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To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by zcylex »

Hello people!

Im looking to get some help here, i recently took out my 2.8 engine and transmission, and theres a lot of work to do, so I'm looking for recommendations from you guys.

Im cleaning my engine to paint it and all that however theres leaks everywhere, so my question is:
Can i replace all gaskets on the engine or rebuild the engine since im already there? Keep in mind this is the first time i take out and engine and start messing with it lo (i usually work on phones, pcs and tablets) engine has around 104k on it but it has never been taken care of aside from certain maintenance done it, yet i believe damage should be minimal.

I already replaced my dreaded TCC solenoid with the new one pretty easy job once the engine is out.

There is also clicking noises from which i believe are the valve lifters. I know some of you may say "just swap that old dinosaur out of there and put a new 3400 in it." But the fact is, its to expensive for me to have a 3.4l engine here in my country fuel costs ~6$ per gallon for you guys it may not be much but try the conversion rates lol(1$=20.8HNL). On the other hand i would love to get a 2.3l quad4 in here but shipping it to here would be mostly impossible and expensive.

I will post pictures of my leaks and problems when i get home. Right now i need u guys to help me decide what to do with my engine


Thanks in advance!





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1988 Beretta GT 2.8L V6 - Yeah my Retta is a year older than me! :)
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themixer
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by themixer »

With that 2.8 running right its still going to use anywhere between 10-14L/100km. 3400 may not be your best option based off your location but it did come in a lot of cars/vans that GM made. Where your car is a 3 speed automatic, the 3400 very possibly could eat the transmission.

I would say the 2.8 has lots of life left in it, put all the new gaskets on make it run as best you can save your money for gas. If you find out later you really like the car and the body remains rust free fly up to mexico and see if you can find a 5 speed transmission, cables, axles shifter and a car with a 3400 to drive it back to Honduras with!


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zcylex
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by zcylex »

yeah i know the 3400 is not an option too bad quads aren't that popular here i would love to get my hands on a LG0 2.3L and make my car a five speed. on the other hand, it is completely necessary to rebuild the engine? i mean i read elsewhere that on old cars replacing certain gaskets can even make other things fail so it is better to rebuild it completely... is that true/possible? or can i just replace the gaskets and measure everything to make sure its up to specs? if so what tools i need? what shouldn't i touch ?

heres some pics for the time being:
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New TCC solenoid vs old..
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1988 Beretta GT 2.8L V6 - Yeah my Retta is a year older than me! :)
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themixer
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by themixer »

I myself am not an expert but usually replacing all the gaskets with new ones helps keep the necessary fluids inside the engine. This is a win/win situation IMO. Maybe someone else can shed light on that myth


1988GTU
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by 1988GTU »

I'd recommend ripping it down to just the lower intake and the oil pan/timing cover. Clean up the pan, lower intake, timing cover in a nice hot tank bath. Slap in some NEW lifters and a nice new bumpshaft (your chance to increase some power and economy). Pop on the 1.6 stamped rockers to compliment the new shaft. Purchase a brand new complete timing chain set (with gears and guide plate assembly). Replace the oil pump with a new pump non reman and also take the time to replace the distributor o-ring under the block off cap on the gear shaft.

That should keep the fluids at bay, increase the power output just below the transmissions breaking point, and add to its economy abilities.
No tune would be mandatory. Would it be beneficial? Yes.


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zcylex
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To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by zcylex »

Thanks 88gtu and the mixer i Found this on ebay

http://bit.ly/1fizUjS

Is this the camshaft(i assume that by bumpshaft u mean camshaft lol) you are talking about or is there a site that you can recommend that sells me the full kit or let me build the kit, and buy it from them?


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1988GTU
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by 1988GTU »

http://www.summitracing.com/ should have better options for ya.

Yep, camshaft = bumpshaft, bumpstick, lumpy bumpy


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Rettax3
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by Rettax3 »

Your mileage isn't that high, although it does look like the engine has been neglected a little. Still, unless you have a particular reason to pull the heads off and mess with either the valves or the pistons (and ridge-ream the cylinders themselves), I wouldn't necessarily invest the money and time on that. If your compression was low or the cylinders deviated too much, then yeah, pull the heads, replace the valve-stem seals, lap the valves back in or even get a fresh seat-grind on them (three angle is pretty standard now, but make sure that is what you are getting), and even run a hone in the cylinders and check the rings for proper end-gap or just replace them. Replace main and rod bearings since you are in there, be sure to use Plasti-gage on them during assembly -that is becoming a lost art. I've never had a problem with a 60-degree V-6's timing chain wearing out, stretching to the service-limit, or breaking, but if you can afford it, replacing the timing set with another good quality one isn't the worst thing you could spend your money on. I'm still hoping that one day someone will make a 'noisy' timing-gear unit for these engines. :wink: Looks like you've gotten into this very quickly -keep up the good work! :good:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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zcylex
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To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by zcylex »

My mistake was that i didn't do a compression test BEFORE removing the engine as i thought i was just going to clean up and paint both the engine and bay. Now i see something that looks like oil leaks from the head gasket(see pic bellow)
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As of now I'm just cleaning and following oil traces to find the leaks and that head gasket its what has me worried so i dunno. I just want to make sure the car is not going to fail anytime soon and at the same time gain some power/economy like 88gtu suggested with the new cam :)


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Rettax3
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by Rettax3 »

Head gaskets don't typically leak oil out badly on these engines, but it is certainly possible. Your valve-cover gaskets are seeping badly though. Probably the crankshaft front and rear oil-seals could use replacements too.

It isn't too late to perform a compression-test at all. Put some oil back into the pan if you already drained it, pull the plugs out, hook the gauge into one cylinder after another, and just connect a battery up to the starter (a mechanic's remote-start button is the safest way to avoid sparks, etc, and to get voltage conveniently to the solenoid, but isn't necessary) and let it crank a few seconds on each cylinder to get your pressures. It is a lot easier do test these engines OUT of the car in fact, because the rear bank is so accessible... :good: Just say that you meant to do it this way... :wink:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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Money pit Beretta
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by Money pit Beretta »

If the cam does have damage it sure needs to be replaced. If you are lucky then you just have a stuck lifter. I can tell you that you have to wiggle a cam in and avoid hitting your new bearings(that you will be putting in). It's not something that you can just shove in. Then there is the timing marks. You have to look for the dimples on the gears and make marks on the block where they are. If the cam is fine and you are just going to change the timing chain you still have to do that.
With only 100km I wouldn't worry about a timing chain. But it is out and that makes it much more easy to change.

I would skip the 1.6 rockers unless you plan to put new valve guides and stem seals in. If you don't you will burn oil.
The rear main seal does tend to leak on 2.8/3.1's. So it would be a good idea to change that.
All this can be a bit much for someone new to this. Do you have an engine builder near you that can rebuild/overhaul it?


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1988GTU
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Re: To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by 1988GTU »

Money pit Beretta wrote:If the cam does have damage it sure needs to be replaced. If you are lucky then you just have a stuck lifter. I can tell you that you have to wiggle a cam in and avoid hitting your new bearings(that you will be putting in). It's not something that you can just shove in. Then there is the timing marks. You have to look for the dimples on the gears and make marks on the block where they are. If the cam is fine and you are just going to change the timing chain you still have to do that.
With only 100km I wouldn't worry about a timing chain. But it is out and that makes it much more easy to change.

I would skip the 1.6 rockers unless you plan to put new valve guides and stem seals in. If you don't you will burn oil.
The rear main seal does tend to leak on 2.8/3.1's. So it would be a good idea to change that.
All this can be a bit much for someone new to this. Do you have an engine builder near you that can rebuild/overhaul it?
The 1.6 Stamped rockers will not wake up hidden ghosts. If it does, then either the install had some sort of misfortune issue and or a part was unknowingly defective/damaged.


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zcylex
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To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by zcylex »

@rettax3: i will try to get the gauge for the compression tests tonight. Though it will have to wait till around tomorrow cause i can't work on the engine tonight

@moneypit: i know its a hard job for a newcomer like me, but "mechanics" here will either do more harm than good or tell me the can't rebuild the engine cause they don't have the parts and if i give them the parts they'll be like "theres no warranty on this since you got the parts not me" this is how my country works unfortunately i did have a mechanic when i was starting but i don't have the time to be dealing with irresponsible pricks(it took him 2 weeks to change my rear brake cylinders and 3 more weeks to tell me he didnt find any tcc on my engine go figure) so in conclusion i might even know more about my car than most of these so called mechanics.

I will replace the cam if have to cause like ive said in other topics: my goal is to bring the car back to original specs or better. Right now I'm just fixing and replacing every problem i find after that i can start tuning and all that even adding the neon rear disc brake conversion etc

@88gtu: went to summitracing site and didnt find much for my engine, not even the cam, i did find a lifter kit. So i guess im going to keep looking for websites like that.
There is also a kit for ~415$ on ebay for rebuilding the engine and comes with everything from the cam to the pistons, rings and timing parts though it asks for the bore size and other info which i don't have.


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zcylex
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To rebuild or not to rebuild? Thats the dilemma!

Post by zcylex »

The last one is the only one that fits, the others say they are for v8


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