1990 GTZ - "chattering" chain noise, water pump/idler?

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1990 GTZ - "chattering" chain noise, water pump/idler?

Postby GTU89 » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:23 pm

1990 GTZ (Quad 4 HO/5M obviously)

Replaced everything timing related except the water pump and water pump/idler sprocket, could they be the source of the chattering noise coming from the housing?

Noise is consistant and worsening, oil pressure is great and the timing stuff was mint when i ripped it apart again after the replacements were installed to check if the tensioner was screwed up already.

I cant find the idler/wp sprocket or bearing for sale just the water pump, does a new water pump come with these or no?

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1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ - "chattering" chain noise, water pump/idler?

Postby GTU89 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:45 pm

the chain is slacked in between the cams for a second when turned over by hand is that normal? the timing stuff is new. the sound seems to be the guides hitting the housing due to them not fitting super snug.

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1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ - "chattering" chain noise, water pump/idler?

Postby GTU89 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:49 pm

should the slack be at the tensioner when unloading it (the tensioner) ?

makes sense to me but my manual says above the tensioner which seems dumb imo unless i misunderstood it.

saw someone else say they fixed their similar issue by having the slack at the tensioner when unloading it.

as it is it slacks between the cams every turn or half turn (one or the other had someone else turn the crank while i watched the top) and slaps the guide making noise.

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1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby 3X00-Modified » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:06 am

Yikes, no one knows how the timing chains should be on the Quad to help this guy out... If I had messed with one I'd give some insight but that is one Beretta motor I haven't touched yet.



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Re: 1990 GTZ - "chattering" chain noise, water pump/idler?

Postby GTU89 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:10 am

should be fine to run it for like 30 seconds-1 min with the cover off as long as the balancer and belt are back on right? should just loose a bit of oil?

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1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ - "chattering" chain noise, water pump/idler?

Postby GTU89 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:54 pm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Etjg6H_UA

ideas?

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1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:32 am

Me personally would say that's not right but I'm not sure how the tensioner system works on those cars... On the V6 there is no tensioner so you will over time see that slop and that's about when it's time to replace it when you hear noises like that behind the cover.

Still blows my mind that not ONE other quad user has chimed in on this thread...



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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby 1988GTU » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:17 am

He's been getting responses out side of this forum. I wouldn't say his situation is easy to resolute unless someone else got there actual hands dirty looking at it.

Something is being overlooked...


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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby GTU89 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:11 pm

1988GTU wrote:He's been getting responses out side of this forum. I wouldn't say his situation is easy to resolute unless someone else got there actual hands dirty looking at it.

Something is being overlooked...


I didn't until I posted the video.

There is atleast one or two youtube vids of the same issue but no one ever seems to tell what they did to fix it (if they did)

I'll shoot more video and pics today and post them here and Q4F.

The chain has been off probably 10 times already in case we did something wrong but it always ends the same with the slack.

Could the water pump be dying and holding the chain up in that area or is that very unlikely? Runs as cool as new.


1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby 1988GTU » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:13 pm

Is your housing cracked or bent where the tensioning parts mount at?


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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby SuzukiGhostRider » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:21 pm

That is normal for Quad4 engine timing set ups.


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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby GTU89 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:37 pm

It's slacked a bit too much though I would think since its making noise and leaving marks in the housing.

And nope no bends or cracks that I've seen. It just does not make any damn sense. I fucking hate aftermarket garbage. Besides the fact that I can see its the chain I have had two good garages check it out (friends with the owners) and both said it is absolutely the chain slapping. Did not do it the first few months of ownership either.

Anyone have a low mileage/known good GM tensioner they would sell me? or better yet a NOS one?


1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx

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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby 3X00-Modified » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:09 am

Going by video appears to be 1st design chain... I highly doubt you'll find a NOS one or a stock one still in good condition.

What brand is currently installed?

Rock auto only has ENGINETECH #TT294 and Cloyes #95188 available for 1st design tensioners.

Ever think of upgrading to the 2nd design setup? I believe you would need a new timing housing and cover but maybe that tensioner would be better? Just a thought since I'm not familiar with these.



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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby 1988GTU » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:26 am

Different water pump, all different guides, tensioner, sprockets (Three) , chain, housing, & cover (Gasket/seals) . That's to do it right.

Best to probably have a dbl row chain made at a local shop to OEM spec, then have it sent out for hardening.


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Re: 1990 GTZ -

Postby GTU89 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:50 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:Going by video appears to be 1st design chain... I highly doubt you'll find a NOS one or a stock one still in good condition.

What brand is currently installed?

Rock auto only has ENGINETECH #TT294 and Cloyes #95188 available for 1st design tensioners.

Ever think of upgrading to the 2nd design setup? I believe you would need a new timing housing and cover but maybe that tensioner would be better? Just a thought since I'm not familiar with these.


Melling with cloyes chain and sprockets. Identical to the stock one. Had two sealed powers but they were DOA (one did not slide in and out nice at all and the other gouged itself [piston gouged the tensioner housing thing] to death quickly) and looked cheaper made so I figured not to trust them. Is Engine Tech any good?

Not sure. The double roller seems more durable to me and idk if 2nd designs are plauged by bad aftermarket. I though I saw somewhere due to the ratcheting action of the 1st design tensioner makes it a better setup but not sure.

Would the enginetech work at all?:
Timing chain tensioner. 1 piece. Silent chain system only. (Only 6 Remaining)


1988GTU wrote:Different water pump, all different guides, tensioner, sprockets (Three) , chain, housing, & cover (Gasket/seals) . That's to do it right.

Best to probably have a dbl row chain made at a local shop to OEM spec, then have it sent out for hardening.


maybe but there is a handful of NOS chains on ebay last time I checked. No tensioners I found though.


1990 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ - 2.3 Quad 4 HO/5 Speed - 141xxx
2003 Ford Mustang - 3.8 V6/5 Speed - 182xxx
1994 Ford F150 - 4.9 300 I6/Auto - 169xxx
1971 Pontiac Lemans Sport Coupe - 7.5 455 V8/Auto - ~45xxx


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