Won't move when placed into gear but...

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pontiecast
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Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:50 pm

1994 V6, 207,xxx. When placing in "R" "D" "2" or "L" car will not move. No whine. Fluid not burnt. When in gear and pressing the accelerator, it sounds as if you are brake torquing the engine but there is no movement. This happened out of the blue with no warning. Can see the selector on top of the trans moving. Once, I forcefully threw the shifter into gear and the transmission engaged, drove and shifted fine. Jammed it up in reverse and it moved backwards. Tried again and nothing. Park works fine.
Any ideas?
Last edited by pontiecast on Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color

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ifixalot
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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby ifixalot » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:10 pm

These old cars, rust the cooling lines can cause it to leak fluid.
Have you checked your fluid level?
Maybe even the pan has a leak.



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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:56 pm

No rusted lines. No major leaks. Very slight seepage around the pan. Fluid level right at full. No smell.


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color

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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby ifixalot » Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:05 pm

I think somebody else here had that problem and they tried disconnecting the wiring to the trans switch and reconnecting it.
I think it helped.
If you have the 4t60e trans, it is electrically controlled.
If the electrics don't work, it won't go into gear,,,I think.



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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:46 am

Disconnected the battery and the main harness connection. Nothing. Disconnected the cable from the selector and switched through the gears and nothing. I did notice the two 13mm bolts on the selector were loose. Figured that's gotta be it! Tightened them, reconnected the cable and still nothing. Also checked the axle shafts for movement and nothing. This just weird because there was no warning, no slippage, no leaks....nothing.


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color

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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby Cliff8928 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:04 pm

If I remember correctly, reverse and second gear should always work in the 4T60-E no matter what is going on electrically. Sounds like a mechanical failure.


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pontiecast
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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:41 am

Thanks for the replies all, but it looks like the trans is done. Guess this means the end of this beretta.....


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color

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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby ifixalot » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:06 am

You could try dropping the trans pan and inspect the filter and filter o-ring.
Maybe something happened and the pump is sucking air and won't develop
pressure to operate the trans. Also see if there is any large debris in the pan.



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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby themixer » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:13 am

thats sad :( maybe time just for a new trans? or is there a lot of rust ?



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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:26 am

No rust. Car spent 17 years of its life in Las Vegas. I tried a few more things. Replaced the selector switch on top of the trans....nothing. Jacked the front wheels off the ground, placed it in each gear and no movement. Another weird thing is it won't roll at all in R,D,L,2 or even N.


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color

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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby Cliff8928 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:29 am

Did you check the shift cable? Do the back-up lights come on in reverse?


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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby ifixalot » Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:04 am

So, sounds like it goes into gear?
Do you see the engine RPM go down when you shift into gear?
But it won't move or even roll?
So maybe something is broken with the parking pawl and it won't release?



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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:18 am

ifixalot wrote:So maybe something is broken with the parking pawl and it won't release?


I've personally seen this happen, the park pawl rod has a flared end to it that keeps the pin on the rod, that pin is spring loaded on the rod so when you put it in park the rod moves towards the diff, the pin pushes down on the pawl and if its not in a position to engage the pin will slide on the rod and push against the spring, once the car rolls you can sometimes hear the pawl click into place. What happens is this flared end will wear out and break off, then the spring pressure against that pin pushes it over toward the diff engaging the pawl and there is no way to disengage it other than removing the rod completely and pulling that pin out and replacing it.

A picture of the issue...
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And a post of this exact issue in another car.

http://www.gmforum.com/1992-1999-91/shi ... ost1427217



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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:11 am

Cliff8928 wrote:Did you check the shift cable? Do the back-up lights come on in reverse?

Yes. Cable is good, reverse lights work.

ifixalot wrote:So, sounds like it goes into gear? YES
Do you see the engine RPM go down when you shift into gear? YES
But it won't move or even roll? Won't move.
So maybe something is broken with the parking pawl and it won't release?
. That' gotta be the problem.
3X00-Modified wrote:
ifixalot wrote:So maybe something is broken with the parking pawl and it won't release?


I've personally seen this happen, the park pawl rod has a flared end to it that keeps the pin on the rod, that pin is spring loaded on the rod so when you put it in park the rod moves towards the diff, the pin pushes down on the pawl and if its not in a position to engage the pin will slide on the rod and push against the spring, once the car rolls you can sometimes hear the pawl click into place. What happens is this flared end will wear out and break off, then the spring pressure against that pin pushes it over toward the diff engaging the pawl and there is no way to disengage it other than removing the rod completely and pulling that pin out and replacing it.

That pawl has to be the problem. Not sure how I'm gonna fix it as it's on the street in front of my house. Gonna have to tow her someplace that can fix it.

Thanks guys so much for the advice. I will let you know how it turns out.


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color

pontiecast
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Re: Won't move when placed into gear but...

Postby pontiecast » Wed May 11, 2016 12:50 am

Just an update. Since I am unable to perform the repairs myself (no garage space or lift) I signed the title over to the repair shop. It was going to cost me a minimum of $500 for the trans repair. Since the trans was coming out for the repair I would have most likely decided to rebuild it so up to $1,000. Emissions and state inspection were due. Would have needed a CAT and brakes to pass. Has a bad cowl leak, thrashed interior and a few minor problems. Just figured it was time to say goodbye. After 22 years of great service, I am no longer the owner of a Beretta. At least it isn't headed for the crusher. The repair shop said they would fix it and use it as a parts runner. It will live on, just in other hands. Thank all of you for the advice and comments over the past few years and mostly making me feel welcome. I'll miss that car.....


1994 Chevrolet Beretta 3100 V6 White/Burgundy- 207,xxx SOLD :cry:
2008 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP Red/black 5.3 V8
2004 Pontiac GTO Torrid Red/Black 5.7LS1 6-speed
2016 Subaru Outback Premium package/some dark grey color


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