Remote Mount Turbo

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
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1988GTU
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Remote Mount Turbo

Postby 1988GTU » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:50 am

Only problem with older Beretta and turbochargers is that stupid trans mount...    I just wanna take the BFH up to it.


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berettaspeed
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Postby berettaspeed » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:16 am

The BFH....mmm

your best friend when things just don't work..LOL


How will "all that extra tubing" create a drag so bad that you will notice?? besides it helps cooling quite a bit, not needing an IC. I think the remote mount is very cool.  

but using the same size turbo i think your better off putting it under the hood. you will have to run smaller exhaust pipes to keep backpressure high to help spool the turbo. but once you get boost you should not have a problem keeping it.


Best ET 14.313@95.37 N/A
Best MPH 14.438@95.71 N/A
89GT 5spd
3400MPFI & Boost
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nocutt
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Remote Mount Turbo

Postby nocutt » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:43 am

The rear mount turbos have their place...but IMO it is favorable with trucks + Cubic inches for good reasons...anything else only uses the loop holes the laws of physics imposes on compressors/turbines...
The reason why IC's aren't needed is because as the compressor pressurizes the intake it looses some velocity trying to pump at least 8-10 FEET of space...as gases loose velocity they INHERENTLY expand...but look at the distance it has to go?
The turbine is another issue, to negate lag; one either sizes the turbine housing smaller than a tradtional setup on the same vehicle/engine and/or use smaller exhaust tubing. Xhaust coming out of the heads are at about 11XX-14XX degrees, while at the back end of the car a WHOPPING 2XX-3XX degrees (less with a Cat) at idle, at WOT I don't see this going any higher than 4XX degrees, so what is the bulk of the rear mounts energy? Mostly volume!! debating it is really pointless...they work, they have their place...finding merits is another issue...if you can put one together, doing either most or some of the labor then it will cut cost drastically...but so would doing a traditional kit...compromise? :hammer



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rweatherford
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Postby rweatherford » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:44 am

Have you ever put a thermocouple at the end of an exhaust pipe on a NA car?

Mine used to run 600-700 cruising down the road at my drivers door with at cat and muffler in front of it.

Then when I floored it I would get 900 degrees easy.   No it's not 1200-1400 but it's not near as low as you state.

I still prefer the turbo on the manifold, but if it works I won't knock it.


Rex Weatherford
92 Beretta GTZ Quad4 Turbo / 5-speed (sold)
Best 1/4 ET =  13.523 @ 105.16 mph

07 Mazda 5 Black on Black (it's slow)


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berettaagain
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Postby berettaagain » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:28 pm

Yeah I figured hey It cant hurt...........this will not be a street car for most matters are concerned and there will be no cat so Im not worried about heat loss in that sense........I also will be able to use a huge snail on it so Im not worried about 5 or 6 lbs..........the trim should be large enough to boost up to 25lbs........I will not use this much boost but I plan on starting low and working up to a desired adjustment........I guess we will just have to see what happens with this...........Ive already got it designed out and will get you guys some more information on the build up when I get parts and pieces together and get it together. Thanx you guys for all your input both positive and negative.
Brian



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Postby Joecoolfreak » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:30 pm

It has been done....that's why I provided the site that showed what they did. For those who don't believe it can work for the 5 speed, it has. I guess maybe you shift too slowly. 13.9 on a 2.8 ain't bad. Now with the 3400, he's running around 12.6. I don't think the retta is that fundamentally different from the cavy to say that similiar improvements can be done with a remote mounted setup with our cars.

My .02



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berettaagain
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Postby berettaagain » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:30 pm

Also just to throw in there Im kinda gonna cheat on this project and to make you aware there will be no fuel tank....so there will be plenty of rrom.......only a small fuel cell in the trunk



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berettaagain
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Postby berettaagain » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:32 pm

I agree JOE......if it worked before it should work fin eon this Quad............Im sure they did there times on barely modded motors as well....(other than boost). Mine will not be a mild motor..........the plans on her have it plenty strong with lgobs and gobs of power for a Quad



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Postby Joecoolfreak » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:43 pm

I am planning on doing it on my 3.1, but have only been able to do the research. I still can't get my hands dirty on it for quite a few more months.



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Remote Mount Turbo

Postby nocutt » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:12 pm

(rweatherford @ Nov. 06 2005,07:44)
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Have you ever put a thermocouple at the end of an exhaust pipe on a NA car?

Mine used to run 600-700 cruising down the road at my drivers door with at cat and muffler in front of it.

Then when I floored it I would get 900 degrees easy.  No it's not 1200-1400 but it's not near as low as you state.

I still prefer the turbo on the manifold, but if it works I won't knock it.

We tested this yrs ago Rex...9XX degree @ WOT? Well if you say so  :;):  No point arguing that...

The car tested was a subaru NA getting a turbo ( I believe this was a 2.4L) with Cat and muffler...( I don't remember the C/R on this car neither, but I know it wasn't higher than 9.0:1)
We actually (well the customer) was playing (R/D for a tuner) with a 6 channel EGT, we did deltas across the IC, deltas across the turbine, deltas across the exhaust!!??! I made no mention of the data @ WOT, but believe me, when comparing the data before and after the turbo unit was placed into the car the differences can definately be accounted for...the heat in the rear is NOT really the bulk of what drives this turbines...of course very engine have their own relative 'thermal packages'...there is a reason you can put your hands at the back of a car when idling...now that might be a blanket statment,...of course its always someone who has done otherwise...I dare not open my mouth or else I am blabbering  :p
Again their is a place for rear mounted kits...however finding their merits in the performance realm is another issue, because you can't help but make comparisons with tradtional kits...which obviously will net you "0"...

There is a reason why turbos do not pass cold start emissions on aftermarket kits...especially looking for performance...the turbine takes A LOT of the heat which is needed to 'flash' the Cat!! Now some OE car manufacturers put their Cat closer to the heads, while the compressor sits after the cat...take a second and look at this turbos, they are usually packaged very small...we can take that for what it is worth...but drive in one of this cars...Lag is a muthalova...now aftermarket for such cars try to place the aftermarket compressors (turbo) units closer to the Cat...not further away for good reasons...obviously the cat is locked by law...I am stating what I know, because this road has been traveled in an attempt to fight C.A.R.B...(might sound of topic but related)

...I am not hating, obvioulsy some crucial info has to be known...the "if it works philosophy does not always work for those who tinker"...I need to know...I digress







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berettaagain
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Postby berettaagain » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:10 pm

Im sorry but what the **** are you babbling about LOL



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Postby z284pwr » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:19 pm

(berettaagain @ Nov. 07 2005,19:10)
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Im sorry but what the **** are you babbling about LOL

He is actually using a personal experience, plus known facts of how exhaust temperatures and heat change from differenet engines, plus how temperatures are affected between before and after a cat as well as just off of the head as compared to as it exits the car.  How the turbine wheel cools the exhaust temp enough that cold start emissions vehicles won't pass because the cat doesn't get warm enough.


Brian Edwards
'73 Trans Am - 455/Auto
'79 Suburban - 454/Auto
'88 Beretta GT - 3.1/5spd
'90 Beretta Indy - 3.1/Auto
'90 TGP - 3.2 Turbo/Auto
'04 TSX - 2.4/Auto

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rweatherford
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Postby rweatherford » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:45 pm

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same things.  Yes I measured on my own car when NA.  Not turbo.

Pre and post turbo temps (delta) will usually differ by the turbo efficiency and load.

I bet you can't hold your hand behind the tailpipe of an NA car at WOT.  Just stick a probe back there.  If the exhaust is already hot when cruising, it gets quite hot on my side exhaust.  (not installed anymore)

GARRUUNNTEE.  Idle is a whole different ballgame.

My commments are for WOT and I stand by them.  I ***-u-med you were talking about WOT because who cares what the exhaust temp is at idle and cruise on a turbo car.  (I'm not trying to pass emissions here, that is what pre turbo cats are for.)  I'm talking about the available heat for the turbine on a remote mounted system, which you stated :

"at WOT I don't see this going any higher than 4XX degrees"

I'm here to say it can be much higher than that.  I don't see the problem since you don't seem to know in your statement and are guessing.

There is always a delta change across the turbine, or your turbo is making energy on its own....  That would be a feat to make a patent for....

Anyway....  Back to your regularly scheduled program.


Rex Weatherford
92 Beretta GTZ Quad4 Turbo / 5-speed (sold)
Best 1/4 ET =  13.523 @ 105.16 mph

07 Mazda 5 Black on Black (it's slow)


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Remote Mount Turbo

Postby nocutt » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:02 am

"at WOT I don't see this going any higher than 4XX degrees"

Rex I am confused, where did you see this?



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1988GTU
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Remote Mount Turbo

Postby 1988GTU » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:18 am

(nocutt @ Nov. 07 2005,06:43)
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at WOT I don't see this going any higher than 4XX degrees, so what is the bulk of the rear mounts energy? Mostly volume!! debating it is really pointless...they work, they have their place...finding merits is another issue...if you can put one together, doing either most or some of the labor then it will cut cost drastically...but so would doing a traditional kit...compromise? :hammer

:hammer


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