3500 turbo!

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Tylerlp
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3500 turbo!

Postby Tylerlp » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:41 pm

hey everybody! im currently in the middle of doing a 3500 turbo swap and i am looking for any advice that i can get. i am not looking to run 20 psi or anything crazy like that but i am wanting to only run what i can until i can get some more cash to do up the engine to handle a larger amount of boost. so what would be the highest psi to run without toasting everything in the engine? and what all is needed to successfully make the 3500 work in my car? I am also rebuilding the trans so that will hopefully hold up for a while. thanks in advance!


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1995 BERETTA BASE: tons of mods..if interested in what ive done to it feel free to ask
1990 BERETTA GTZ: stock for now
1991 BERETTA BASE: stock for now but is a 3.1 5 speed!

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Slinky
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Slinky » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:45 pm

. since your doing a 3500 i would say safe boost is between 7-8psi daily on stock pistons with a very good tune and running rich at WOT will last, but you may have seen some people run 10-12psi on stock and others blow pistons at 6psi on a stock engine, its all a gamble, also you basicly cannot go over 8-9psi on these engines without blowing headgaskets non stop, the only option to go higher is graphite gaskets from WOT-TECH. Also you should talk to woody on beretta.net if you have a manual, he has done alot of work and research with them to find the best one, and i believe 225-45-17 are the biggest widest tires you can put on without having to roll the fender wells, which is also a problem with boost because of wheel spin, i have an est 260-270whp with my 3450 hybrid pushing 6-7psi and my wheels spin like crazy.. With your setup being a cammed 3500 at maybe 8psi you should produce 280-300whp witch will burn the tires off.
The biggest thing to remember is if you want a stock engine to last its all in the tune, it must be very good or your engine will be toast fast..

I told you all of this on Facebook but someone on here correct me if I'm wrong


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3400tZ
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby 3400tZ » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:59 pm

7-8psi should be on the very safe side. I do run 10psi and broke a few pistons a few times but it was always my fault (tuning). You said it, its all about tuning. Some parts quality will have an impact but the tune will definitely have the biggest. I know people that run 15psi+ on stock bottom end no problem. Stock 3500 head gaskets can handle a lot of boost, people don't even have problem with them at 18psi. I had problem with Felpro head gaskets (they are crap) but stock GM, never. Not sure where the the "blowing head gaskets non stop" come from ?!


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Slinky
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Slinky » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:03 pm

I'm not as familiar with 3500 as I am 3400 but Mars continually blew head gaskets has 3400 I believe


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Tylerlp
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Tylerlp » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:53 pm

i know slinky haha sorry i just wanted to post here and get as many opinions as i could. i also cant figure out how to do the throttle body still.


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1995 BERETTA BASE: tons of mods..if interested in what ive done to it feel free to ask
1990 BERETTA GTZ: stock for now
1991 BERETTA BASE: stock for now but is a 3.1 5 speed!

Tylerlp
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Tylerlp » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:54 pm

also 3400tz i read a write up that you posted on some other forum about your turbo and i must say, job well done! that looks awesome.


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1995 BERETTA BASE: tons of mods..if interested in what ive done to it feel free to ask
1990 BERETTA GTZ: stock for now
1991 BERETTA BASE: stock for now but is a 3.1 5 speed!

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Slinky
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Slinky » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:35 pm

Cheapest and easiest way to do the throttle body and still have a big Isgett and Aurora throttle body and by the adapter from WOt-tech


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Tylerlp
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Tylerlp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:20 am

ok so where do i start with the throttle cable bracket? pretty simple im guessing?


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1995 BERETTA BASE: tons of mods..if interested in what ive done to it feel free to ask
1990 BERETTA GTZ: stock for now
1991 BERETTA BASE: stock for now but is a 3.1 5 speed!

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Koots
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Koots » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:09 am

Most engines can handle 6-8psi of boost without the need for major modifications. This all depends on many factors, but most high production car and truck engines can withstand that, even if they aren't designed for it. This is the max for sustained boost, max peak boost you would want to see is 15-16psi. By that point you have to start worrying about adequate fueling and EGT's too.

But that should give you plenty of power increase and keep you happy until you can afford to start really pushing things.



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3400beretta
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby 3400beretta » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:04 am

Slinky wrote:. since your doing a 3500 i would say safe boost is between 7-8psi daily on stock pistons with a very good tune and running rich at WOT will last, but you may have seen some people run 10-12psi on stock and others blow pistons at 6psi on a stock engine, its all a gamble, also you basicly cannot go over 8-9psi on these engines without blowing headgaskets non stop, the only option to go higher is graphite gaskets from WOT-TECH. Also you should talk to woody on beretta.net if you have a manual, he has done alot of work and research with them to find the best one, and i believe 225-45-17 are the biggest widest tires you can put on without having to roll the fender wells, which is also a problem with boost because of wheel spin, i have an est 260-270whp with my 3450 hybrid pushing 6-7psi and my wheels spin like crazy.. With your setup being a cammed 3500 at maybe 8psi you should produce 280-300whp witch will burn the tires off.
The biggest thing to remember is if you want a stock engine to last its all in the tune, it must be very good or your engine will be toast fast..

I told you all of this on Facebook but someone on here correct me if I'm wrong



There is nothing wrong with the stock pistons, and they can handle pretty much any amount of boost you throw at them, as with ANY cast piston - as long as you aren't detonating. Detonation is what kills pistons, not boost. If your tune is good and you keep your knock counts down there's no reason you can't run 20psi on the stock pistons. Upon tear down of both the engines I blew, there wasn't so much as a nick in any of the pistons.

I've been running 14-15 psi on a stock headgasket with zero issues. On both engines I've torn down, the headgasket was perfect still, so unless you want to run over 20psi - keep the stock headgasket.

I've proven now that the weak point in a 3500 is #6 connecting rod. I've blown 2 engines, both with the identical conrod failure. GM identified them as the weak spot, hence the oil squirter on cylinders 5 & 6. If you want to spend money upgrading something in the bottom end - get yourself some forged rods. However, both times the engine spiked to a high boost level, so I would say 12psi would be a safe maximum number for the stock rods.

Also, if you are planning on getting a cam - don't bother. Put the money towards something else. The stock cam is plenty good as a turbo cam, in fact if you do some reading about turbo cams, most people will recommend that the factory cam is more than adequate until you start getting into some serious power levels. And by that I mean 25+ psi.

As for wheel spin, its going to be an issue even with 225s. If you have a choice, build an auto transmission. I swapped a getrag into my car and I regret that. One day I will swap back to auto, as the manual is just stupid with a turbo. The first three gears are pretty much useless. I also suggest you get yourself a set of slicks for the track, otherwise forget about putting down any decent times.



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Slinky
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Slinky » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:12 pm

whats your thoughts on a 3400 engine pertaining to boost and the weak links 3400beretta?


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Tylerlp
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Tylerlp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:29 pm

i am planning on doing a rebuild on my 4t60e with a few little knick knacks here and there...so ill start getting pictures of everything im working with here soon, also instead of doing my tuning through the pcm i am wanting to use a Greddy E-manage blue...is anybody familiar with that?


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1995 BERETTA BASE: tons of mods..if interested in what ive done to it feel free to ask
1990 BERETTA GTZ: stock for now
1991 BERETTA BASE: stock for now but is a 3.1 5 speed!

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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:48 pm

Tylerlp wrote:i am planning on doing a rebuild on my 4t60e with a few little knick knacks here and there...so ill start getting pictures of everything im working with here soon, also instead of doing my tuning through the pcm i am wanting to use a Greddy E-manage blue...is anybody familiar with that?


Waste of time... Just use the stock OBDII system you upgraded to, or go fully stand alone... Piggiebacking some Greedy unit that splices in on the MAP and MAF signals is just going to give you more of a headache than doing it right...

And what do you plan on doing to the 4t60e if you don't mind me asking.

And Slinky, I'm sure the 3400 has very similar weak points if not worse on cylinders 5-6, granted the rod style is different BUT the 3400 block doesn't have the oil squirters so the wrist pin's don't get as much oil as the 3500 would provide... they do this mostly because those two cylinders are the hottest. But from some other info I've seen... the 3400 will handle about equal boost since that's what Mars was using as well as a few others.



Tylerlp
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Tylerlp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:25 pm

As of right now I'm not completely sure...fully overhauling it but besides that I still need to do some research


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1995 BERETTA BASE: tons of mods..if interested in what ive done to it feel free to ask
1990 BERETTA GTZ: stock for now
1991 BERETTA BASE: stock for now but is a 3.1 5 speed!

Z26_T
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Re: 3500 turbo!

Postby Z26_T » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:19 am

Buy a DHP and use that for tuning. There are a couple for sale on 60degreev6.com. You will want stiffer valve springs, the 42.5 lb injectors we talked about on fb, a 255 lph pump, wideband o2 with gauge and call it a day. Then spend hours upon hours tuning and researching it..

Your trans is probably the weakest link from what others have done. On upgrade stuff check this thread, on page 2 there is a link to another thread as well. http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread. ... ance-Build

I'd start with a stock 3500 and go from there. (Though I slightly like 3400s more due to how easy it is to get forged rods and dropping the compression ratio down with 3500 heads). If you feel the car isn't making enough power, then look into upgrading the engine for more boost. I street 6psi with no issues and it makes plenty of power. If you want to street 8-10, go for it. Just make sure the car is tuned for it.


heavywoody wrote:Beretta, fast, reliable, and cost effective are words that should not be used in the same sentence.

95' BRM Z26. cammed/ported 3400/3500 Hybrid. HM282, OBD2, Garret T3/T04E 60 Trim, IC.


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