6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
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DanteGTZ
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6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby DanteGTZ » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:52 pm

I stumbled upon this while looking for some other info.

http://www.grandamgt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73212


1993 Quasar Quad4 GTZ - Project WTF
1993 Garnet Quad4 GTZ - GTZed-Eh? - SOLD
1993 Aqua GT - 3.1 / 5 speed - 82k original miles - SOLD

Previous Berettas: 1990 GT and 1993 Quasar GTZ

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Alpinestar10 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:16 pm

There's actually a guy that did it and a gen 2 cavalier basically the same as the beretta's he didnt do a thread on it but his name is fused88 on v6z24.com



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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby speedy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:57 pm

well i'll be damed, i didnt think a manual trans swap was possible in the newer grand am's, this has my attention, and i got a grand am with a bad motor, i wont 6 speed swap it, to much modifying, but, i could make it a 5 speed, and hell, i got 2 other transmissions just lying there anyways


1991 beretta GTZ- 2.3l w41 cams, ported 086 head with a 3 angle valve job, fidanza flywheel with exedy racing clutch, 3.94fdr from and scx, so much more..

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby woody90gtz » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:25 am

Yup, F40 6spd. I looked in to this when I broke my 5spd. Swap cost would be around $3000 and there are a lot of shifting complaints with that trans. You can get brand new ones on ebay, but they are the discontinued style that had the most issues. GM redesigned it in its 2nd year to fix some of the problems. 3400/6spd has such a nice ring to it though...haha


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby 3X00-Modified » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:32 am

Why is it that everyone who does stuff like this SUCKS at welding... Almost every project you see they obviously are using a flux core welder and it always looks like bubble gum... LOL



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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby heavywoody » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:48 am

Haha, isn't that the truth...

At least the guys that do their own Pro-touring builds can weld...

Amateurs.


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby woody90gtz » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:15 am

The quality of most of the fab work on pro-touring is outstanding. I'm in awe looking at some of those builds...


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Travelor » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:14 pm

I talked about doing this swap with Geoff 8 months ago, and everyone I'd talked to since says "The gearing sucks, I wouldn't do it"

Still, it rattles around in my head as an option. I'll convert it to a manual together with the motor swap next year.


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby 88_GTU » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:51 pm

Travelor wrote:I talked about doing this swap with Geoff 8 months ago, and everyone I'd talked to since says "The gearing sucks, I wouldn't do it"

Still, it rattles around in my head as an option. I'll convert it to a manual together with the motor swap next year.



Did a 3500 5spd swap in my white GTU a few months back. The extra gear would be nice for cruising but it's not necessary by any means. And I've heard the same thing about the crappy gearing.

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Alpinestar10 » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:53 pm

http://www.v6z24.com/jbodyforum/f40-6-s ... rt,45.html this guy did it and said the gearing feels the same.



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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby woody90gtz » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:13 pm

The gearing x FDR is almost identical to a 282, except for 6th obviously. I did the math when I was thinking about it.


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Rettax3 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:04 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:Why is it that everyone who does stuff like this SUCKS at welding... Almost every project you see they obviously are using a flux core welder and it always looks like bubble gum... LOL

There is nothing wrong with flux-core if you know how to use it, and if the welder can put out enough current to provide enough penetration. The problem is that people buy the cheap 110 volt wire-feeds and think that makes them a welder -it is the operator, not necessarily the equipment, and certainly not the medium that causes bird-poop welds (not that I am the world's greatest welder, very far from it). In fact, flux-core (I didn't like it before either and was very biased against it, but then I also used to do mostly gas welding) can actually penetrated better than conventional MIG welding, because the weld isn't being cooled by the shield-gas. Mostly, I now use flux-core pushed through an actual MIG unit (being an actual MIG, it has better current than most of the little hobby welders, but even some of those can be used okay). Unfortunately, my MIG's speed-control board is toast, so I've been stuck using a little hobby-grade unit lately.

As for the tranny, I too have done a lot of research on it. The 3800 in my GTU is just wasting gas at highway speeds for lack of a taller gear (bottom-end torque is incredible on this engine), and 70mph+ is annoying due to the droning exhaust-note. First gear on the F40 is ridiculous, unless you want to pace an old man with a walker. :pardon: It could be a good out-of-the-hole gear, but if the engine produces enough torque to make first gear in a Muncie 282 useless, then what would be the point? Sixth gear is significantly taller than our Muncie five-speeds, and the ebay ones are so cheap that it is a viable option -even if they aren't the best, how do they compare to a 20-year-old junkyard Getrag 282? The biggest issue is the dual-mass flywheel, which weighs like 80 pounds and sticks into the F40 by two inches. :roll: The F40 has a very short input shaft because of this, so expect to need a custom spacer and clutch assembly (check on the Fiero sites, this is a popular swap in those cars), unless you can think up a crazy way around this :unknown: :wink: (I already have). And, the supposedly 'drop-in' Cobalt SS CV-shafts don't work as-supplied on our cars with the F40, because the differential-case is too wide, so one of the CVs have to be shortened by ~1". :fool: The wheel-bearing oil-seals also interfere with the CV, as the outer cup is different than our Berettas'. Shall we even discuss shift-cables? The VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) on the F40 reads off of the final-drive gear, which has 78 teeth, so 78 pulses per revolution as opposed to 40 pulses on the Muncie /Getrag 282. Physically, it will fit in the Beretta, no problem. It is a little bit bigger than a 282, but not that much. It also calls for fully synthetic synchromesh, which is pricey. $20 per quart is a good deal. How do I know all this?
Stay tuned... :P


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:52 am

Okay, first test-drive was done today, so I'll let the cat out of the bag.
Gretta1a.jpg
'Gretta' the Beretta. I didn't name the car, but the previous owner had a really good relationship with it, and the name stuck.
My '89 GTU was converted to a five-speed a few years ago when I also converted the car to the 3800 Series-II SC hybrid. The tranny had worn synchronizers when I bought it from the junk-yard (from another GTU, no less), and I've also had trouble getting into reverse since day one. I got sick of it. I've finally completed the six-speed F40 swap into the car. It was NOT an easy swap, despite the fact that the car already had all the five-speed stuff in it, but as usual, I made it even more difficult in my quest to save money and use off-the-shelf parts for standard wear-items. I do NOT need a custom clutch, I do NOT need a V-8 Archie flywheel spacer, and the only modification to the shifter-cables was to pop the plastic insert and threaded pivot-bolt off the end of one of them (see pic). I did have to do some modifications to the tranny housing, that one CV joint (as mentioned above) had to be shortened, and the shift-cable mounting-bracket was a totally custom-made piece.
Anyway, write-up is already in the wings, here are some teaser-pics...
062113Engine1a.jpg
The 'u' on the valve-cover GTU fell off, I still have to put it back on. And wash the engine-bay down. Twice.

062113F404a.jpg
I modified one shifter-cable by popping out the plastic retainer on the end, and put in a bolt with cotter-pin. Ooo, that was tough.

062113F403a.jpg
Becaue of the insane headers on my car (which are not as badly rusted as they look, but they are showing a lot of surface-rust at this point), I had to modify the bell-housing to clear two of the primaries. Stock 3800 exhaust uses a cross-over on the top like the stock Beretta V-6s.


First impressions:
-First gear is not as ridiculously short as I expected, I will actually be using it, especially with my slightly grabby Stage-3 six-puck clutch disc.
-Reverse is really easy to get into -yay!
-Shifting is a little stiff -but hey, it is a brand new zero-mile tranny.
-It seems easier shifting sequentially through the gears, I am used to skipping gear alot, but this behaves more like the four-speed Hurst-shifter in my '70 Plymouth...
-I couldn't even shift up into sixth yet in my neighborhood. Very tall, very serious plus to me.

I still have to put in the Dakota Digital speed-sensor calibration box I bought for my '90 Turbo 'Retta until I swap-out the wheel-spindles with modified ABS-sensor-equipped ones for the correct VSS signal, so the car won't be getting much drive-time soon.

But she is driving, so I think I might be the first Beretta owner with an F40 six-speed conversion. :Yahoo!:
If not, then I am likely the first Beretta owner with an F40 conversion with a 3800 Series II.
If not, then I am probably the first Beretta owner with an F40 conversion with a Super Charged 3800 Series II.
If not, then I am almost positively the first '89 Beretta GTU owner with an F40 conversion with a Super Charged 3800 Series II... 8)

Edit: By the way, I've got somewhere just under $1k into this install, including the $20 per quart synthetic synchromesh, so $3k is a bit exaggerated IMO. I could see maybe $2k, if all the custom clutch-parts had to be bought and the car still had to be converted from automatic, but I even had to buy all-new clutch hydraulics for this swap, so $3k is hard to see.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

berettaboy
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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby berettaboy » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:49 am

Rettax3 wrote: I've finally completed the six-speed F40 swap into the car.


Well done. This is pretty awesome and I'd shake your hand if I could.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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94 BAM Z26 - bought with 1 owner from VA

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby MY91GT(Z) » Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:01 am

I want your car rettax lol




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