6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
Alpinestar10
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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Alpinestar10 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:07 pm

Nice so what flywheel did you use the dual mass? Or? Im going to consider this when i have another cavi or beretta. i got a 282 sitting in the garage but newer tech i like. Are you using a lsd?



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Rettax3
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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:58 pm

Thanks guys, nice to hear positive feedback. I know there are a lot of reasons NOT to do one of these swaps too. I used the stock 3800 flywheel for a ~'96 Camaro. It is much thicker and heavier than the 60-degree V-6 flywheels*, which helped eliminate the need for a costly clutch-spacer and custom clutch. It will also help avoid some of the problems encountered with these swaps when using light-weight flywheels that eventually cause damage to the transmission due to vibrations. As for LSD, it costs between $1200 and $1600 for a good LSD for this transmission. With it being brand new, I had no interest in splitting the case and more than doubling my cost for the project, even though Limited Slip would be awesome to have here. Maybe I will look into it again if I ever have to rebuild this tranny...

*The 3800 flywheel is so much thicker in fact, that I actually had to make 1/4" spacers between the 5-speed 282 and the engine on the original build with this car years ago, or have the flywheel milled-down. I built the spacers so I could use standard 3800 flywheels, rather than pay for custom machine-work. And that choice is paying off again here.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby BerettaLove32 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:55 pm

Awesome work, that is one cool and unique Beretta. You can tell a lot of time an effort went into the car.



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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby MY91GT(Z) » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:25 pm

You find uniquely awesome work to your cars and it awesome that u do.it.on budget and mostly.with gm parts also and thats what makes even better... now.time.to turn ur attn on green indy to see what thats like :)hehe



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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:22 pm

MY91GT(Z) wrote: now.time.to turn ur attn on green indy to see what thats like :)hehe

:twisted: That is my next project (as planned, anyway, so I hope... :roll: ). The car is currently parked at a family member's house, so I have to move it here first (not a short trip, either), but the garage is open and waiting. After that is a five-speed swap into my '86 Fiero GT (fastback), and the twin-turbo 4.6 Northstar into my 'not old' Camaro, with an upgrade to a stronger five-speed transmission than the one already in it.
I would love to put one of these six-speeds into the Teal Indy too, but with the L47 Quad-Cam 32 Valve V-8 in there, it physically will not fit without butchering the car, which I will not do. Clearance is only off by an inch or so too :roll: .


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby heavywoody » Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:56 am

Would you mind posting up a list of parts that you used, and what cars they came from, for the community?


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby woody90gtz » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:13 am

That is awesome. And you cut a LOT of cost from what I was figuring. Sweet deal. I'd like to know how it all went together and if it reliably shifts well.


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Rettax3
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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Rettax3 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:01 pm

heavywoody wrote:Would you mind posting up a list of parts that you used, and what cars they came from, for the community?

I'm still hoping to get a build-thread together on this soon. But a quick list of parts is handy enough:

~$530 Including Freight: F40 six-speed transmission, 0-miles (new)
$170 Both 2005 Cobalt SS 2.0 SC Five-speed CVs, Saab 9-3 Turbo (IIRC) Six-speed Intermediate shaft (I don't recall the year though, any of the six-speed cars of the era should work) (all parts used, factory OEM)
$75 1995 Ford Ranger 3.0L Stage-3 6-puck clutch friction disc (new)
~$50 2001 Pontiac Grand Am Dorman CM640069 clutch master-cylinder/line assy.
$60 Redline MT-85 Synchromesh Synthetic transmission fluid
~$2 O2 Sensor plug (transmission filler-plug)
$75 Dakota Digital SGI-5C Speedometer calibration unit
Just under $1000.

Keep in mind though that I already had a Stage-3 complete clutch kit in my car for ~half a year, so the friction-disc was the only thing I needed to swap (since the F40 input shaft is so much larger). I also modified the transmission bell-housing itself to make it seat 5/16" closer to the engine, so I didn't need to buy the $300-500 custom clutch assembly with an extended center (splined) section, or a V-8 Archie flywheel spacer. On a 60-degree V-6, the flywheel thickness is a serious problem for this transmission, and the way I built this wouldn't work for that engine. But here is an idea: The 2.8 and 3.1 used on the F-body cars (Camaro and Firebird) is much thicker than the FWD cars' flywheels... I think they might be balanced differently too, but that is a very minor point to deal with. :wink:
The clutch master cylinder had to be tweaked, but could have been easier if my car wasn't already set up for the five-speed, maybe.
The left CV joint (they are the same on either side) had to be shortened by ~1".
I also fabricated the shift-cable bracket on the transmission myself.
I would say a more realistic number for anyone not wanting to do a lot of fab-work themselves would be closer to $1500, because of the CV and the shift-cable bracket (although I don't know who you would go to, aside from maybe V-8 Archie, and they may not even be able to help you because the Fiero shift-cables come in from the opposite direction). The Jack-shaft (Intermediate shaft) bearing needs a custom mount too, even if using a 3X00. Piece of cake on my 3800 though... This is assuming the F-Body flywheel works too...

I can say it isn't necessarily the ideal upgrade -an add-on double-overdrive sixth gear to a new or rebuilt Muncie/Getrag 282 would be closer to perfect from my view, but that doesn't exist. So here is this option instead...

BTW, avoid lightweight flywheels and un-sprung clutch-discs if considering this tranny -from my research, those are the two things that kill the F40s...
woody90gtz wrote:That is awesome. And you cut a LOT of cost from what I was figuring. Sweet deal. I'd like to know how it all went together and if it reliably shifts well.
Thank you, I appreciate that. I'll be putting some miles on it here pretty soon, at least enough to test the overall setup to make sure there are no major bugs to work out. I've done enough modifications on the parts that I do have some concerns regarding reliability, and although the F40 is rated for 400 N-M of input torque (hence the designation), it doesn't have a sterling reputation. My engine puts out significantly higher numbers than the 3900 VVT engine that originally came with the F40 (the 3900 was rated 240/240 HP and ft-lbs torque, the stock L67 3800 SC is rated for 240/280 HP and torque -the torque-rating is allegedly under-rated and is closer to 310 ft-lbs torque, and mine is modified a bit with higher compression, WAI, lighter internals, headers and low-restriction short-run dual exhaust, so I'm conservatively estimating closer to 280 HP), so I won't be babying it once I've got the tranny out of break-in. It WILL get a fair test.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby Travelor » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm interested in seeing the photos you took during installation. I'd like to see clearances and closer pictures of the changes you made to the housing as well as how the flywheel fits.


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Re: 6 speed for your 3x00??? Check this out.

Postby GTZfan » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:29 pm

Thats amazing. Great work rettax. I'd love to see your exotic creations/modifications in person.


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