3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

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3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby BerettaZ26 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:56 am

well I was on 60 degree v6 but they ticked me off when I wanted to know about putting a 90 degree v6 in my beretta. So my question is will a 3800 GTP supercharged motor fit into my 94 Z26? I've heard from people that it will fit but I don't know, it's a pretty big motor. I think it makes like 260+hp so if it fits this Z would be a v8 slayer. Somebody let me know what I'd need to complete tis swap or if its even possible.
thanx!!!!!!!!!!



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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby heavywoody » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:41 am

Anything is possible if you possess the knowledge.

3800 swaps have been done here a couple times. It's not known as a popular swap due to the amount of strengthening the core support/cradle areas need, along with the new brackets for engine mounting purposes. Not to mention the wiring.


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby 1988GTU » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:05 pm

BerettaZ26 wrote:well I was on 60 degree v6 but they ticked me off when I wanted to know about putting a 90 degree v6 in my beretta.

That's understandable.
Its like going to a Chevy Truck dealer and asking for options and specs for a Dodge Ram. :burn:


BerettaZ26 wrote:So my question is will a 3800 GTP supercharged motor fit into my 94 Z26? I've heard from people that it will fit but I don't know, it's a pretty big motor. I think it makes like 260+hp so if it fits this Z would be a v8 slayer. Somebody let me know what I'd need to complete tis swap or if its even possible.
thanx!!!!!!!!!!

Very possible to do, but that engines potential is being surpassed by the ability of the 3500 and ease of the 3500's installation compared to a 3800.


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby BerettaZ26 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:33 pm

so it's possible that a 3500 could make more power than the 3800 SC motor? Is there a supercharger made for the 3500?



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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Asylum » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:00 pm

I totally agree ^^^^

The 3400/3500 option is a much easier and a more satisfying install/swap.

And "60degreeV6.com" IS A JOKE as soon as you mention a 90* anything!!

Just my .02 from the guy who had the first ever 3500 Beretta.

The 3400/3500 swap is now quite common and as far as the 3800 issue, we are STILL waiting for ANY time slips or dyno numbers from one of those things.

FWIW

:beer:


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Godlike » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:39 pm

I want to see someone put a Impala 305hp 3.6 in a Beretta.


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:52 pm

The wiring necessary for that would be a headache in itself... Same with the fuel system it needs... But definitely would be cool!



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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Godlike » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:53 pm

Ya, I believe it. Im just day dreaming. I start looking up engines on Wikipedia and I get all excited. How about this one:
The 3.6 L twin-turbocharged version for the 2014 Cadillac CTS and 2014 Cadillac XTS has been announced at the 2013 NYAS
The engine is rated at 420 hp (313 kW) of power @ 5750 rpm and 430 lb·ft (583 N·m) of torque @ 3500-4500 rpm (with 90% of torque being available at 2500-5500 rpm) and helps the CTS achieve 0-60 mph time of 4.6 seconds with an 8-speed automatic transmission.


90' GTZ 189whp NA 14.00@99 / 237whp 50 shot 13.3@104 /95' Integra 225whp / 69' Impala / 04' Z71 Tahoe/ 85 K20/ 15' IS350F
projects 86 Bonneville 6.0 swap / MkIII Supra LS1 swap

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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby BerettaZ26 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:55 am

wow I never thought about putting a 3.6 twin turbo out of a Cadillac in one of these cars, that would be nice. but I think I've decided on a motor tho, I found a W-41 Quad 4 from an olds acheiva SCX 190hp stock with a set of hot cams from the factory, put an intake and a decent exhaust setup on it and that's an easy 200hp. just hope it'll all work out the way I want it to.



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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Travelor » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:02 pm

The 3500 already makes more HP than the W41 quad, and let's not forget about torque! I'd say if it's a V6, stick with a V6 for ease of install. Very little effort for much larger gains.

But it's your project, you should install what makes you the happiest.


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby bonecrrusher » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:10 am

Swap in an LS4 and a 6 speed G6 trans...


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:16 pm

I am pretty happy with my 3800 SC and G6 6-speed swap in my GTU. Yes, it is VERY doable. With you having the newer-style engine mounts already in your car, the 3500 swap is easier, but the 3800 swap isn't hard for someone with basic engine-swap knowledge and equipment. I did a write-up back on bstuff showing it could be done with just those basics, a power-drill and a hack-saw! (I used a welder and a porta-band myself, but not strictly necessary).

:deadhorse: *Yawn.* Asylum, the reasons for swapping-in a 3800 aren't strictly dictated by 1/4-mile times. It is a unique swap to do, as there aren't many running out there and each one is a little different simply because it isn't "drop-in". But, if you want to foot the bill for the track-time and some street-legal 16" slicks and a nice LSD for my F40 trans (I believe Quaife makes one for a little over $1k, um, U.S.), I will happily get the wheels in motion for some track testing... :wink: Satisfying? I can't say for sure how satisfying a 3500 swap is to complete, but I can say that punching the accelerator to the floor in third gear and breaking traction on dry pavement is pretty darn satisfying, and easily done with my GTU. :wink: The satisfaction of doing that with a custom engine-swap that I designed and built myself, well x100. :pardon:

In all seriousness though, I can say that a 3500 swap is certainly an upgrade from the 3100, but a 3800 SC in a Beretta is a whole different world of performance. Stock, a Series II SC L67 is rated at 240 HP, and makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 foot-pounds of torque (GM under-rated it a little). The Series III is even more powerful, with just a few tweaks made to the head design and an improved M90 supercharger. The LX9 3500 makes what, 200 HP and about 220 for torque? C'mon, you need a dyno sheet to read that? Sorry. :pardon: So aftermarket plays in, and the 3500 has a LOT more potential to explore... So does the 3800 though, and while there aren't as many options for the 3800, how many choices do you need if there is enough out there to reliably make 400-600 HP? A 4.2 stroker kit is available for the 3800 (or was, at least), the boost can always be dialed up, there are more aggressive cams available, and tuning is always an option. Structurally, the 3800 is nearly bulletproof, the 3500 is also very strong, but there really is no replacement for displacement, and the 3800 starts off with ten percent more of it. Don't want to throw tons of money into aftermarket parts? The 3800 comes boosted FROM THE FACTORY, in fact is designed for it, and is known for reliability. I was not a fan of this 'dinosaur' engine, or its' iron heads before I actually put one in a car and drove it, now I am a fan and wouldn't mind swapping another one in.

So if the question is 'is it worth it', compare the options and the costs, realize a 3800 won't be dropped in over a weekend and you DO have to fabricate some parts and exhaust is a whole different subject to tackle while a 3500 can be modified to plug right in to your Z26 with some compromises. If the question is 'can it be done' well yes obviously, it HAS been done. If the question is 'with unlimited time and money, which engine can be made to create more peak HP for at least two 1/4-mile passes before exploding without having to actually build anything myself' well, I've never researched that, but save some time and just buy a Bugatti. Good luck either way you go, if any. :beer:


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Cliff8928 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:30 am

Rettax3 wrote: With you having the newer-style engine mounts already in your car, the 3500 swap is easier, but the 3800 swap isn't hard for someone with basic engine-swap knowledge and equipment.


Wouldn't the 90°V6 swap just use the 92-93 n-body engine mounts?


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Re: 3800 GTP supercharged motor for my Z26

Postby Rettax3 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:57 am

Cliff8928 wrote:
Rettax3 wrote: With you having the newer-style engine mounts already in your car, the 3500 swap is easier, but the 3800 swap isn't hard for someone with basic engine-swap knowledge and equipment.


Wouldn't the 90°V6 swap just use the 92-93 n-body engine mounts?

It is entirely possible that the N-body 3300 mount would bolt perfectly between the Z-26's frame and the 3800, in fact that is exactly how my friend and I had planned on installing my particular 3800 into his '92 Grand Am, before he abandoned the project with me. Since my build was into an '89 GTU (that I bought especially to put the 3800 SC into), I cannot confirm that the setup would work, but yes, good point. A chime-in from any other member here who has put a 3800 into a newer-style Beretta (or Corsica, or Tempest) would be useful, especially if anyone ever tried using the 3300 mount... My '95 Z-26 could use that setup, and might if I run across a good 3800 for a good price at the right time, but the 3300 mount was one part we never got around to grabbing for the '92 Grand Am build we started... :fool:

Even so though, the 3500 would still be the easier swap, as Asylum said, as there would be no wiring issues, possibly no exhaust fabrication, no intake mods, and no other structural reinforcements would be necessary to handle the 3500.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26


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