Rod Bearings

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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby 3X00-Modified » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:18 pm

Yeah, I'm being told it was due to the lack of the oiling groves on the cam sprocket, manufacturing mistake... I have yet to be brave enough to try the replacement sets I've received... But I hope that was the issue.



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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby whiteretta » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:41 pm

I'm going to have to look into mine. Looks like it's time to get the long screwdriver out and see if any noises are coming from it.


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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:05 am

Easiest way to tell is with the engine not running just put a breaker bar on the crank bolt and move the crank back and forth... I've actually been able to hear the chain go click click loudly from how much slack there was going back and forth.

Something to note though... timing chain noise will not go away with temp increase... so if your noise goes away when it's warm its probably the piston slap the engines are notorious for.



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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby whiteretta » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:58 am

That's sort of what I was figuring... I've never heard one of these engines make this kind of a "slap" before though, which is why I was concerned.


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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:47 pm

...A little older post, I know, but for my part, Clevite 77 are the best choice once you do get in there. They are a tri-metal construction, instead of aluminum. I have seen SEVERAL 60-degree engines with melted aluminum bearings -I have never seen tri-metals melt or distort in that way. I have used Sealed Power long ago in the past, and more recently on some Import applications, but I now avoid them when I can since they are typically solid aluminum construction. I know GM has been using aluminum bearings for years now, but hey, they also used plastic LIMGs in these engines -it doesn't make it a good idea...

So far as the noise you have, are you certain it isn't just the typical 3X00 flat lifters? Many of these engines develop rattle in the top-end associated with the lifters...


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1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:40 am

3X00 Flat lifters??? what do you mean by that.

I've never had a lifter go bad on me ever in a 3400 or 3100... They are roller type and I've never seen the internals fail due to a cam increase or anything like that.... Granted I've seen them pump down at high RPM's and limit a motor without swapping the internals to LS6 stuff but I haven't seen one fail yet.

If he had a motor that had a bad intake gasket leak for a long time then you could chock it up as gummed up lifters with coolant residue but I doubt that's his issue.



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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby whiteretta » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:15 am

The noise does go away after a minute or so of idling. It also has a squeak to it which worries me. I've never heard piston slap make a squeaking / tapping sound.


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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:57 pm

are you sure the squeak isn't belt related?



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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby whiteretta » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:44 pm

100%.


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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby Rettax3 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:28 pm

whiteretta wrote:The noise does go away after a minute or so of idling. It also has a squeak to it which worries me. I've never heard piston slap make a squeaking / tapping sound.

^^^This is what I am talking about.^^^ (Well maybe, although the squeak is a little asymptomatic... :unknown: )

The 3100s, especially the J-code (big-port) versions, and 3400s often have excessive lifter ticking. I have myself heard it in several of these engines, maybe somewhere roughly around six of them? I have heard of others having this issue too. I haven't seen this discussed much on the forums, but I am also not on 60degreev6... I am surprised you haven't had some experience with this issue, considering how many of these engines you seem to have worked with. It is NOT a maintenance issue either, as at least two of the engines I can think of off the top of my head were routinely serviced, and received premium oil on regular change intervals. One of them even had relatively low miles (around 80k, I think) and was a retired fleet car, and one of the ones I only heard about (from a friend, a reliable source who was a service-line tech) was also a low mileage engine. I think all of these engines I have seen were stock or nearly so (possibly upgraded intake or exhaust, just bolt-on stuff). So, I base my statement on purely anecdotal evidence and personal experience, but I stand by that statement... :pardon:

I will note that in NONE of these cases that I can think of did the lifter ticking contribute to any performance issues or emissions-related problems, so it is really just an annoyance. Perhaps the word "issue" is a little strong... And if the word "typical" offends, I will retract that part of it. :wink:


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby 3X00-Modified » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:49 am

Lifters don't tick unless the internals are damaged and don't hold oil pressure... Just a FYI. The tick you would hear would be excess pushrod clearance or the hydraulic part bottoming out which in the end is a very big issue.



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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby Rettax3 » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:01 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:Lifters don't tick unless the internals are damaged and don't hold oil pressure... Just a FYI. The tick you would hear would be excess pushrod clearance or the hydraulic part bottoming out which in the end is a very big issue.

Lifters DO tick if there is an oil-supply problem, defective lifters, or as you say, damage to them. Even sludge build-up inside the lifters can cause ticking... And excessive pushrod clearance is 'lifter noise' as the excessive clearance in a stock engine with hydraulic lifters is caused by said lifters -that noise-making gap is what they are there to eliminate, so I am not sure what point you are trying to make there. :Search:

As far as it being a 'very big issue', well yes and no. I reserve the right to qualify my statements later in case someone wants to get knit-picky with me, but... If the clearance is large enough to cause ticking, then it is causing an impact between moving pieces. Generally speaking, impact is bad on engine parts, but in this case I have not seen damage or accelerated wear to these engines from it -the ticking I have encountered was bad enough to be audible but not severe enough to cause measurable damage over even a moderate time-frame.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: Rod Bearings

Postby neech » Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:06 pm

The old 2.8 in my first car would have the the lifters tick a little at idle when it was within 1000km of it's next oil change..do an oil change an it was gone til next 100 km to its next oil change....ran it at least 200,000 km like that without issue...in fact it still runs good ..just the car it's in has almost rusted away...not saying anyone's wrong or right just putting out an actual long term high mileage example for you ...FYI that old 2.8 is at like 475 '00 km last I looked lol


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