3500 Swap Information

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
2.2H8TA
Registered User
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:59 am
Location: NE-PA
Contact:

3500 Swap Information

Postby 2.2H8TA » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:13 am

I'm going to be having a 3500 swapped into my 94 Z26. I'm in need of a list of the parts and modifications needed to make this work. I'm keeping my 4t60e, and I'd also like to NOT go obd2. If someone would be kind enough to post this info here for me it would be very much appreciated. I need this asap, as my car is in the shop with a cracked head. This will also serve as a sort of guide for my mechanic to refer to during the swap.


1994 AQUA ZED

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:14 pm

There is no guide or specific list... also OBDII is not a requirement since you can buy OBDI.5 tuning equipment... strongly advised to get maximum results from the swap otherwise you risk damaging the engine or just driving around a turd because it cant correct enough. Larger injectors are definitely suggested... stock 17lb ones will not suffice.

Short list of stuff that you need to possibly fab or make is the AC compressor will only bolt on with the two block bolts, the oil pan one is not lined up properly and it's also about 1/4" away from touching the pan boss all together so something would have to be made to adapt this somehow, My solution is still in the works. Second the bracket that holds the transmission to the back of the block has no boss's to bolt to since they moved on the 3500... You need to fab a new bracket completely for this location. And the only purchasable thing to the 3500 swap is getting an external crank trigger assembly OR internal trigger wheel... whichever you prefer, Britishcarconversions.com has these.

After that, all standard 3400 swap info applies... Search for the 3400 swap guide... and honestly putting a 3400 in it may be easier for your mechanic to do without requiring custom fabrication.

I hate to say this but these kind of swaps are NOT suggested to have a shop/mechanic do it unless they KNOW what they are getting into. If it's completely foreign to them then your just asking for trouble and in all honesty I can't even see them wanting to take on the job due to the liability that could be at hand.



2.2H8TA
Registered User
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:59 am
Location: NE-PA
Contact:

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 2.2H8TA » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:23 pm

I'm not worried about the A/C, that is if it can be deleted on this motor like the 3100. I just bought a delete pulley for the 3100, and it's on now. I will talk to him about the mount fabrication. The guy is good, but obviously has never done this before. Do you have a photo of this mount modification? What injectors should be used?


1994 AQUA ZED

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:58 pm

I don't have photo's... This is the first 3500 that I'm swapping in my car this year and I'm only at engine tear down/prep stage... I haven't had time to mock anything up.

Injectors probably need to be at least 19lb/hr if not 22's. I' not sure what stock 3500 ones are but any injector change will require re-tuning... no questions asked.

Regarding AC delete, look online for delete pulleys for the applications... 04-06 malibu and such.



2.2H8TA
Registered User
Posts: 915
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:59 am
Location: NE-PA
Contact:

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 2.2H8TA » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:53 am

Ok, what kind of injectors am I looking for here? I think I'm gonna be forced to go 3500, because I cannot seem to find a decent price on a 3400 with decent miles on it. I found a 3500 for really cheap locally and it's hard to pass up. I have to talk more to the mecanic doing the work, just so I know he's confident he can pull this off. If I could find a 3400 for the price I found the 3500 for I'd do that to keep it more simple, but unless the place that has the 3500 has one, it's 3500 or my 150k+ mile 3100 getting put back in. 3500 seems like the smarter choice at this point, considering cost.


1994 AQUA ZED

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:33 am

Don't forget the additional crank trigger costs to even get the 3500 running... And if you plan on keeping the 3500 upper intake you also need a TB adapter... That's close to 200 in additional parts.

External trigger is 145, egr adapter if your keeping that is 50 and the TB adapter is 55.



User avatar
Money pit Beretta
Registered User
Posts: 6360
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:36 am
Location: Kansas
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:44 am

One day I'd like to know if the rear cylinders burn too much oil when using a 3400 upper on a 3500. Hotter pulgs needed?


keep'em flying!

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:51 am

who said that?

In my eyes the tunnel on the 3500 intake is a worse design...

viewtopic.php?p=134156#p134156



User avatar
heavywoody
Global Moderator
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:10 pm
Location: Concord, NC
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Contact:

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby heavywoody » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:42 am

I wonder if that tunnel was removed, what the flow characteristics would be; similar to what the picture from the other thread shows, but not putting an SC on top of it...


Geoff
95 Z26 3400 5spd
Beretta Preservation Society - Director of Acquisitions
Image

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:20 am

Not sure, No one really has ANY flow characteristics documented for either intake... I think I'm also the only one who's gone to the drag strip and changed it between runs and only saw a .05 difference in times... aka negligible... I'm only going with the 3100 one this time around for hood clearance with the direct port spacers, that right front corner sits too high and would hit the hood.



User avatar
Asylum
Registered User
Posts: 3022
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:36 am
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby Asylum » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:37 pm

Jon unless you did actual A-B-A tests on the UIM it doesn't really tell you anything, and you're right, .05 run to run is somewhat allowable.

GM put that tunnel in there for a reason, after what we can only imagine was a lot of testing.


Eric

Asylum Motorsports
"Where we're not happy 'til YOU'RE not happy!






'91 California Quad
'92 3500 GT gone and not really missed. It was fun. Documented 13.47 N/A.

User avatar
heavywoody
Global Moderator
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:10 pm
Location: Concord, NC
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Contact:

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby heavywoody » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:15 pm

We would hope... but GM has also cut a LOT of corners.

That intake may have been designed for day to day efficiencies. Allowing maximum airflow to cylinders 5&6? Nope.

Hence the issue some people (Rodney off the top of my head) has been having with those cylinders on boosted applications.

Or at least that's how my thought process puts it... lol


Geoff
95 Z26 3400 5spd
Beretta Preservation Society - Director of Acquisitions
Image

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:35 pm

I'll have to see if my lower end shows any signs of flow differences since I've been running that intake with my nitrous spray for quite a while now.



User avatar
heavywoody
Global Moderator
Posts: 1849
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:10 pm
Location: Concord, NC
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Contact:

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby heavywoody » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:44 pm

It would be awesome if we could monitor individual cylinder performance (temps, pressures, etc). Too bad the software/sensors we have to monitor doesn't help with that at all.


Geoff
95 Z26 3400 5spd
Beretta Preservation Society - Director of Acquisitions
Image

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10672
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Plainfield CT
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: 3500 Swap Information

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:00 pm

Well we could monitor cylinder temps with EGT sensors if we wanted to spend the money on it... Honestly I just haven't seen any detrimental issues to justify spending the money to monitor this stuff... Now if I were melting spark plugs or cracking ring lands that would be a different story.




Return to “Performance Mods”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests