Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on it

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Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on it

Postby Beretta1234567 » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:00 pm

I have a 3.1L MPFI v6, I am going to boost this engine, mostly because I can.

Its a learning platform, I would go 3400 or 3500 and then boost that, but I already have the 3.1 MPFI, might as well not waste a usable engine.

So its as follows, I plan to have piped welded and I am buying all the parts to beef up this engine, bottom and top end. And a turbo that can easily handle 20+ PSI if I want.

Here is the fun part. I am looking into MegaSquirt 3 to run this engine, I plan to convert the injectors from MPFI to SFI.

However I do not know if the MS3 will interface with the existing ignition control module bolted under our coil packs.

For a 1990 Beretta INDY 3.1L MPFI v6 3 SPD auto (I have a 5 SPD Stick in the garage :D )

The ignition control module, is it a GM 7X or have a GM 7X trigger?
The shop manual will have this and I dont have a shop manual to check this out.
(I want to find out if megasquirt can run the ignition control module or not, they said it has to be a 7x module, if not I'm stuck spending more money for an aftermarket custom controller and coils)

Also, I'm panning on going with the 3400 injectors, because boost needs fuel.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby JeffD » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:27 am

MS will interface with the ignition module, but you will need to make changes to your main board if you have not done so yet. Yes, it is a GM 7x (6+1), the ignition control module will take care of that though, MS will just control timing advancement just like your current 1227730 PCM. Do a search on the Mega Squirt forums regarding GM DIS and you will get all the answers you need.

It's a bit more than the injectors that makes the SFI system work, the newer SFI engines have a cam sensor that indicates the position of the cam relative to the crank, allowing the ECM to know the location of #1 cylinder in it's cycle.

Your current ECM has a ton of potential too, and you may want to rethink the direction you are heading. MS is really cool, (I have a MS2 that I'm installing on a motorcycle) but it is also limited.

Your 1227730 (i am assuming that is your ECM) is actually a desirable OBD1 ECM, It's well documented on gearhead-efi.com as having the capability of running code 59 firmware (boost control and a mess of other features)

I saw your post over on code59.org, you'll need a Moates Ostrich to get started tuning and usually the guys at gearhead-efi will have bin files for running base tunes to get you started.

Good Luck.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby Beretta1234567 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:38 pm

Yah I kinda figured SFI would be tricky when trying to find the position of the cylinder.

I am checking out MegaSquirt because I can not find anyone who will tune the OBD1 PROM chip in NE ohio.
I called everyone I could find and every answer I get is a "We only do OBD2" :(

I found the chip burner and everything. The guys on the forums that directed me to code59 were very helpful.
If I can find someone who can help me tune this car (Hopefully on a dyno), I would buy the chips, burner, and install the software. But I dont know what the best settings are for tuning, especially with a turbo.
(It would be nice as I would be spending about 700 dollars less)
I'm trying to cover all my options with the ECM.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby ronaconda » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:43 pm

WOT-Tech may be able to help you burn the chip(s) you need.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:21 pm

I don't know if Ben has a base file for a turbo'd 3400 engine nor would he want to only supply a base without having it fine tuned. And I know that this individual want's it dyno tuned... that means he would have to bring it to Ben or to WOT-Tech in FL, to get the hands on approach he wants.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby Beretta1234567 » Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:42 pm

Yah, I was talking to ben.
I would like to bring the car in to have it dyno tuned with him, but I'm to far away to justify driving all that way with a half working setup.

I was hoping there was a closer alternative, That is why I was checking out the MegaSquirt.
There is a place where I live that will tune a MegaSquirt, but then I will be paying an extra 700 dollars just for the custom ECU.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:46 pm

You gotta pay to play... Power or reliable power isn't cheap.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby JeffD » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:35 pm

I'm going to assume that a stock TGP bin will be good enough to run your car so you can begin logging and tuning.

You are going to need a Willem prom burner or Moates' burner to make your prom, or see if anyone is willing to make you one over at www.gearhead-efi.com. Chances are you'll be able to get the base tune you are looking for over there.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby ronaconda » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:33 am

JeffD wrote:I'm going to assume that a stock TGP bin will be good enough to run your car so you can begin logging and tuning.


I think i have a TGP PROM...i'll look and let you know.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:22 am

I think the other issue people are overlooking is HE does not want to do the tuning alone... So unless he finds someone, as he noted already, that will do OBDI tuning on a dyno he would rather move to the Megasquirt which he knows of dyno shops who will tune using that or OBDII setups.



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:57 pm

What about going with a Monte Carlo or Venture 3400 PCM and tuning that? It is already expecting the 3400 injectors to start with, it is OBD2 so finding a local shop to help may be easier, and it is certainly cheaper to acquire one of them than a MS3... That is what I am running on my '90 'Retta with the LA1 3400/LG5 3.1 MPFI Turbo hybrid engine, I just have to actually spend the time with my DHP to get it working right... Wiring in the harness (or specifically the parts of the harness that would apply to a 3.1 MPFI block that is without the cam position sensor or the 24x hi-res crank sensor under the harmonic balancer) isn't difficult, allows an upgrade to a heated O2 sensor right from the start, and should be able to handle future upgrades without relying on specialized equipment that is now completely outdated (anyone want to sell me an Ostrich for cheap? :wink: ) to start all over each time you add something new. For what it is worth though, I would probably have gone the Ostrich route to begin with if I didn't need the DHP for the 3800 SC in my GTU too and was lucky enough to actually find one for a good price. :pardon: If you decide to go this route, get the PCM and engine-bay harness, and need help with the wiring, PM me and we can talk about it. :beer: I built the harness on my '90 strand-by-strand for a '99 GA/GT 3400 H.O. Ram-Air PCM, and finally ditched it for a Venture van to get rid of the problematic BCM and anti-theft system, and I have all the schematics and pin-outs for both setups.


1989 Super Charged 3800 Series II (First)Six-Speed Conversion GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 Five-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 Five-Speed Indy GTi (Rebuild Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 3400 Top-End Auto OD Z-26

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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby Beretta1234567 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:02 am

I do have an 02 monte carlo ECM.

Wont that want to run the engine in SFI? Or would it be able to be configured as an MPFI setup?

It took a lot of looking but I finally found the turbo grand prix prom chip. I can plug that in for now, but I'm still open to ideas for tuning.
However, I am Still trying to find the files to tune within tuner pro then upload to a chip for the turbo grand prix.
I would like to try and learn how to do this since nobody where I am can help, maybe someone here has guidelines for determining the A/F ratios when controlling to higher boost?



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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby Asylum » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:38 am

SFI is MPFI after about 2500 RPM so don't worry about it!

Been like that forever.


Eric

Asylum Motorsports
"Where we're not happy 'til YOU'RE not happy!






'91 California Quad
'92 3500 GT gone and not really missed. It was fun. Documented 13.47 N/A.

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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby woody90gtz » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:43 pm

SFI is nice though. I can tell from a 3400 SFI to a 3400 MPFI there is a difference.

I plan to start my 383 as MPFI and convert to SFI with a dual-sync distributor some time down the line. Interested to see the difference there too.


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91 "SS" 3400/5spd - EP, FFP, TCE, SPEC, DSS, S&S, OBD1, 13s? GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Infor about the 3.1L MPFI v6, and using MegaSquirt 3 on

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:22 pm

SFI makes idle more possible with large injectors... :)




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