LS1/t56 swap

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
Alxsmt
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:32 pm

Thanks!

As far as structure, its getting a full frame basically built in to the body and at least a 6 point cage but Im hoping I can get away with a full cage. literally everything done so far is going away as far as the added structure goes.


right?? its going to make life a ton easier being in a garage. Its an oversized single garage.. but its really too small.. but.. Ill take it all day long over a car port and a shed 45 min away from me.


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby PGTMR2 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:06 am

New here, just checking out the site. This reminds me of a RWD Probe GT build from a few years back. I wanna say it took the guy 2-3 years. He replaced the floor with a Miata/MX-5 floor and tunnel, Miata gearbox, RX-7 diff, stock engine turned 90*. Different car, same passion. The entire forum was watching the whole time. It turned out amazing, looked like a factory car. In the beginning looked like he was hacking up 2 good cars, that were never going to drive again. It's been awhile since I've looked at that thread, I know someone was thinking about doing an LS one also, that one never got built. Now I'm wondering why he didn't go with 240 suspension or complete RX-7. Ended up with a narrower track which was fixed with spacers and some nice wide wheels to fill the wells.

There's 2 YouTube videos that might give you some ideas for an inboard rear suspension setup. One is a Mercedes E-class shows the whole build and then track results afterwards. That one looks simple, and has adjustment built in. The other was a CRX. Had me wanting to cut up all of my cars to do inboard suspension. I do not have a welder or the skills atm :( . Look up the RWD Probe, it's white with black stripes, while you're at it, there's a few high quality videos of the finished car and I believe a link to the thread that might help with ideas. Definitely get some video out of this thing when you're done, I expect it will be a lot of fun!



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woody90gtz
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby woody90gtz » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:31 pm

It's amazing the progress you've already made outside...I think I work just as slow with an attached garage! haha

Those cantilever setups can really work well. Be another thing to add to the cool factor too.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - EP, FFP, TCE, SPEC, DSS, S&S, OBD1 GEARHEAD dezign

Alxsmt
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:25 am

welcome to the forum! I have not heard about that build. I will be searching for it tonight!! it sounds pretty cool. The more ideas the better, thanks for the heads up!


its been rough, but thats literally how ive worked on stuff my whole life. kinda got used to it! my first 3400 swap was done in the middle of winter, in the mud.. and hell, it actually snowed! no progress yet. still havnt touched it. I got my subaru back up and running so thats out of the way and I can focus on the Beretta. My mockup coilovers arrived, and the lower mount adapter should be in the mail. Ill be making them fit soon! looking like they will work good tho, I think I will be using this size for the front and rear, Looks promising. 3" of compression and 3" of droop, little less with bump stops.


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

Alxsmt
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:01 am

well I found the probe rwd conversion. I like how he did it! pics stopped working once he got the car rolling.. but still cool as hell. here is a link if anybody has some time to kill.

https://forums.probetalk.com/showthread ... 1701310615


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

PGTMR2
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby PGTMR2 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:23 pm

I had a different idea so far as making a FWD into RWD... Fiero/MR2 style. Just take the engine, FWD transmission and put it all in the back. Adapt a cable shifter with some custom cables to shift the gears, route your own clutch line, fuel tank or fuel cell under the hood, extend the cooling hoses. Tough part would be strengthening the rear of the car. It would be ideal to have an access panel to the front of the engine inside the car, so a removable sealed panel similar to a full size van doghouse. Adapt front struts to work in the rear with arms to lock and adjust toe. I figure it's probably a little safer and simpler than cutting the whole middle out of the car. There is some weight savings in not having a driveshaft as well, and the engine over the wheels does help with traction. I used to drive my MR2 through snowstorms, found out a friend of mine had to abandon his RX-8 (lightened and 320hp) in a snowstorm I drove across town in both ways : ) It was a winter beater and already rusted bad when I got it.



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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:26 pm

Im not a fan of mid engines. hate working on them! and the cars just feel funny to drive.. I had a fiero for awhile and was going to do a 3400 turbo setup in it until I realized I couldnt control a slide. sold it shortly after! practice and better suspension could have solved it I bet.. one of my dream cars is a lotus elise actually..

but that being said, I think you actually have a good idea!! no extra money needed for an engine/trans.. could even use a fiero rear cradle I bet.. I dont think that would be too extremely hard compared to a front engine rear wheel drive, obviously a few of its own unique issues to solve, but still! I like that idea, it would be a good way to go about it I think. keep your factory front suspension and steering.. that alone was a nightmare to figure out! and your track width for the rear would be dead on already too.. I kinda wanna try this on a random car once the beretta is done.... I really your idea haha.


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

PGTMR2
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby PGTMR2 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:31 am

I had an MR2 a while back and mid-engine cars really should require some extra training for off throttle oversteer. My Camaro would kick the tail, get out of line, remove foot from the throttle and it would correct itself with some counter steer. Piss off a mid or rear engined car, and you're in for a ride, maybe backwards into a wall or off the road. MR2 drove great in dry weather, great in the snow, the rain was really the most dangerous. Because you're more likely to push the car harder in the rain than the snow. My mistake : ) happened on a curved freeway exit ramp, accelerating as the road straightened up to the street. I was still in the curve a little 35-40 mph I want to say, something you'd take legally at 25. 45 in dry weather no problem, anywho, I was in second gear, on the edge of snapping the T-VIS valve open when I applied a little more throttle. The valve opened, one intake runner became 2 feeding twice the air to the engine in an instant, an atom bomb went off and I suddenly had 117 angry Japanese Clydesdales try and kick their shoes all at once. The car turned 90* with no warning, suddenly on the grass in the middle of the exit loop feet from where the overpass over the highway began. The car slid sideways nose pointed up, the front wheels up over a foot higher with the curb and grass than the road. I did counter steer, late, but I made the right move, the car slammed and dragged and then straightened itself and slammed back down on to the road straight. The look on my passenger's face, priceless. I stopped down the road at the very first place. To check the status of the car and underwear. Everyone was okay. The car hadn't lost or loosened or even cracked a single piece of low hanging plastic. Later I saw a definite area where the floor had been hit, but it was okay. If it had an exhaust down the middle it would have been ruined, but all of that's in the back, so really no damage so far as I was concerned. No underwear was harmed either. Absolutely terrifying, but it wouldn't stop me from getting another mid-engine car. The engine becomes a heavy pendulum that wants to swing forward under braking, so if you lose rear traction, even slowing down trying to get yourself out of trouble may not help and could make things worse.



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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:02 pm

HAHAHA! exactly!! its a totally different world! not a world I know very well! on paper they do handle better.. or if you can drive them I guess lol.. sadly the reason the new vette is going to be mid engine..


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

Alxsmt
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:52 am

had a few hours to play around today. Got the car leveled.

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clearance for the tires.. still need to cut more but it clears everything with bald tires. I dont think hoosiers will fit..


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one downside to the c4 steering setup is the angle. It doesnt have much! hopefully this will do. I guess I could go crazy had have some knuckes CNCed later down the road if I needed more. But it was good enough for the vette, and many great cars dont have much angle, so we will see. I plan to leave it as is tho.


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I know ive posted the brakes before, but come on.. how badass does that look..


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Rear rotors! first test fit actually. Been in a box for quite a long time..

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thats a terrible picture.. but I had a problem! first test fit of my rear calipers also.. I can buy an adapter to run ctsv calipers on this (go figure right?) but the c6 brakes dont seem to work.. the factory bracket hits the caliper before it rests on the rotor in the right spot. The solution? yes, I have one!! The 240 guys like to run dual calipers, how? 1/4" steel plate lazered out and bolted on between the hub and the rear upright. Ill just have the same thing done (possibly cnc if the offset needs to change) for my c6 calipers. Then cut off the factory caliper mounts for clearance. Problem solved! Now set that on the back burner till I need them..


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I was determined! waiting on a new fan for my air compressor.. but I got it! turns out I need a part from Nissan to make my ball joint fit on the 300zx uprights.. thats ordered.

Ive been planning out my chassis a bit more, still not 100% sure on frame rail size or thickness.. probably going to end up going with 2x4 .120 wall. I have some .120 wall scrap and my little welder seems to just fine on it now that hooked to real power, I have no reason to buy a bigger welder yet I guess like I was expecting. Nothing holding me back now!! well aside from my air compressor.. time.. and money.. but its a damn good start! hoping ill be ready to start on the frame in the next few months. It will give me time to go over the suspension geometry again and mockup the shocks.


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

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woody90gtz
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby woody90gtz » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:32 am

Looking really good. I Love that wheel/tire/brake combo.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - EP, FFP, TCE, SPEC, DSS, S&S, OBD1 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby jjanke » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:04 am

I ran 1/8" wall 3×2" box for my rails and all my rear frame. 4x2 would be good too ....maybe a but over kill but ....



Alxsmt
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:31 pm

Thanks! I was literally stairing at those front brakes for about half an hour..


Thats good to know! I was really thinking about 2x6 haha. Thinking that was overkill.. then thought about the fact its fairly strong in that area from the factory.. I dont really want extra dead weight.. bit more research to do. Few more books to go through too. Im glad you used the same wall thickness tho, hopefully that means im on the right track.


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88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car

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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby bonecrrusher » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:21 pm

Z06 brakes FTW!


2005 Chevrolet Corvette Z51
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD
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Alxsmt
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Re: LS1/t56 swap

Postby Alxsmt » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:01 am

no real good updates yet. Ive been slammed at work so I havnt made much progress. I did put the engine back in, and well.. it wont fit.. my steering rack hits. I swear I had this all mocked up with the rack in. Nothing moved/bent. Worst case I reshape the center of the hood a little. I think im going to move the engine back another inch an a half or so into the firewall, which makes installation a bit of a bitch! and also puts the shifter back another inch or so.. which moves the seats back a but farther than I want. so who knows, I get to play with it a little more I guess and see what happens. might put the dash in for a better idea of how far back ill really be sitting. But regardless, Its moving forward!


Image
88 Beretta CL - your average grandma car.. Ls1 swap in progress
77 Celica - needs an engine swap
96 Geo - 1.0L, Cam, 3 angle, cam gear, magnaflow, Koni, H&R
86 Subi - rally car


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