How strong is the 3400 bottom end?

[rweatherford]

Look up "Dynamic Compression Ratio" and then get back to me.....

Yes you can port it and it will be better, but at what cost?  A good intercooler on the system will make very high boost levels still keep from pre-igniting, unless the "dynamic" compression goes too high.  You definately don't need a large NA based cam in a turbo car.  Stock cams work great.

Anyway I'll stand by my original comment.  12- 13 seconds is not hard on a stock engine if tuned correctly.  But I wouldn't drive it that hard everyday.  With power comes responsibility.

[badbluballinGTX]

(rweatherford @ Mar. 31 2006,22:17)Q
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ENo offense, but if you are going to turbo it you can get more that enough air into that engine to blow it to pieces, WITHOUT expensive head and intake manifold modifications.  I'd save the money.
You mean save the money and not do the head work and cam? and just do a small turbo with tuning and a five speed?

btw, thanks for all of the advice...

[TheWhiteWolf]

I guess there are not that many people that know what it really takes to break the 13 second mark.  For reference, the 2005 Corvette does high 12's-13 seconds in the quarter.   Your are going to need well over 400 hp to reach into the 12's in a Beretta.

From the 13.5 that Rex reaches getting to to the high 12's, even 12.9999 is a lot of work.  It is not like going from a 16 second run to a 15.5 second run.

[nocutt]

(badbluballinGTX @ Apr. 01 2006,01:35)Q
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E(rweatherford @ Mar. 31 2006,22:17)Q
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ENo offense, but if you are going to turbo it you can get more that enough air into that engine to blow it to pieces, WITHOUT expensive head and intake manifold modifications.  I'd save the money.
You mean save the money and not do the head work and cam? and just do a small turbo with tuning and a five speed?

btw, thanks for all of the advice...
Both Rex and Issac Hayes have a point...you just have to know were you fit in...in terms of which side of the fence your ideology resides...
Having said that, I have been on the boards for a while and take the side of the fence Rex is basing his ideology on. If tune is key, then much of the other mods are secondary when you have complimented the turbo. Stock heads on a 3400 are plenty for what you want to do...remember this is not new territory, several folks have 'walked this path' already. If you are trying to go all out and have deeper pockets...that is a whole different issue    

TheWhiteWolf: Posted on Apr. 01 2006+04:58-->(TheWhiteWolf: Posted on Apr. 01 2006 @ 04:58)Q
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I guess there are not that many people that know what it really takes to break the 13 second mark.  For reference, the 2005 Corvette does high 12's-13 seconds in the quarter.   Your are going to need well over 400 hp to reach into the 12's in a Beretta.

Point well taken, but put simply...I don't agree. The amount of HP needed NA, is not the same when engine breathes Unaturally...

[rweatherford]

The 1/4 mile is about HP to weight.  Plus a little traction...

If a Corvette is 400 HP and weighs 3500 lbs then a 2700 lb car needs about 310 HP.  It can be done, but the tune will need to be perfect on pump gas.  Start running higher octane fuel and it's not quite as hard.  Just turn the boost up some more.  Yes there is an end point.

My car does not have that much HP.  Probably in the 280 HP range.  About 230-250 HP a the wheels.

[mcgavinz26]

There is a point of diminishing returns.  Why spend a lot of money building an engine that goes on ebay all the time for about $400?  You can replace it every other year if you want without setting yourself back.

I think the issue of an engine needing compression lower than 9.0 when boosted is a myth that was fabricated from people not understanding how to tune.  Case in point, 2006 Saab 9-3, 2.8 turbo, 9.5:1 compression.  

Even more simply put, cars are engineered with weak points that are not major components.  Axels break before transmissions.  Head gaskets blow before pistons.  If you want to run something like a 13 flat, pistons are not something you need to spend money on.

I really sound like preachy ******* dont I?  I guess when I look at kbb.com and see the value of my car is less than one month's pay,  it makes me not want to tell people to spend more than the value of the car on mods when I know they would be driving it happily if it had 280hp.  Just because johny tran has more than 100 grand under the hood of his S2000, doesn't mean you need that too.

[IsaacHayes]

Yup, you gotta realize what is realistic for you, and what will give you the most bang for your buck, and how much bang is enough or more than enough.

I'd like to build up a motor over a year and drop it into my car. I know my car isn't worth much, but that makes the whole project cheaper if I ever needed another body to become a project car. Add to the fact my car looks nice, handles good, makes me happy to drive it, and it doesn't matter how much it's worth. Having a motor I custom built up myself would make it that much more enjoyable. So for me it's not just about going fast, it's a little more than that, like a hobby. If built right the motor could be dropped into another car that has a gen3 60* with minimal tuning and keep on rocking.

But you can go the other route, and just get-er-done and have a fast street car that isn't all out, enjoying driving it and not worry about it. Throwing on some boost and a careful tune is the easiest and cheapest.

It's addicting to want to put every little best performing thing you can do to an engine though. Leave it to the hobbiests and serious professional race motor builders!

[RebelGT]

(mcgavinz26 @ Apr. 04 2006,00:16)Q
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EEven more simply put, cars are engineered with weak points that are not major components.  Axels break before transmissions.
tell that to Mustang owners with T5's  

[TurboGTU]

Comming from the TGP community...your trans will let go before you get 300hp to the wheels. At about that hp ...you stock "dished" pistons won't live. They'll let go of the top ring. The iron, TDC pistons are more sturdy as they don't have that weak point untill you get forged. Everything ese is bullet proff. Theres no need to rev past 7K rpm anyway.

Heck..I can get this 2nd gen to 350 hp no sweat with just porting and cam with some boost. I just have to watch not to go lean.

Your trans is the only thing holding you back.

[rweatherford]

To be honest, my car could probably break into the 12's with drag slicks, but I'm not willing to bet my tranny or axles on it when I'm 3 hours from home and have to drive back home when I'm done.

[wicked-irocz]

(rweatherford @ Apr. 05 2006,06:49)Q
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ETo be honest, my car could probably break into the 12's with drag slicks, but I'm not willing to bet my tranny or axles on it when I'm 3 hours from home and have to drive back home when I'm done.
Rex, I know your trying to sell your car but I want to get your car to the track again.  C'mon, pretty please.  Maybe sometime this summer we can meet at a track, a midwest thing.  I just want to see your car go all out again before you sell it (to someone responsible and thats not going to strip it).  I never have seen it run better than a 13.9 because it was running lean at the track at bfest 02 or 03, well, whenever it was.

[zach82]

Well that and he kept blowing the hose off the intake  

I've love to see that thing roll now that it's all finished and tuned.  So if I brought a trailer would you run drag slicks?  

[IsaacHayes]

I saw it this january. It wasn't on the road though. He doesn't have plates on it anymore, so we didn't go for a drive.

Oh and the hose going to the intake manifold was off when I looked under the hood. So his couplers still blow off. hehe.

[Jeff P]

(TheWhiteWolf @ Apr. 02 2006,03:58)Q
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EI guess there are not that many people that know what it really takes to break the 13 second mark.  For reference, the 2005 Corvette does high 12's-13 seconds in the quarter.   Your are going to need well over 400 hp to reach into the 12's in a Beretta.

From the 13.5 that Rex reaches getting to to the high 12's, even 12.9999 is a lot of work.  It is not like going from a 16 second run to a 15.5 second run.
Actually Aaron ran a 12.95@105 in his GTZ with a bunch of engine work and a 75 shot of nitrous.

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EIf a Corvette is 400 HP and weighs 3500 lbs then a 2700 lb car needs about 310 HP.  It can be done, but the tune will need to be perfect on pump gas.  Start running higher octane fuel and it's not quite as hard.  Just turn the boost up some more.  Yes there is an end point.

My car does not have that much HP.  Probably in the 280 HP range.  About 230-250 HP a the wheels.
I know it's not a turbo, but Aaron found 92 octane to work fine for his application...of course the track was a mile high, but still... And he had slicks, which helped his time.  Rex, I'd be really interested to see what your car would do with slicks.  Since you said that spinning the tires on your GTZ gets you the lowest 60' times, I wonder what you would do if you had traction.

[1988GTU]

IMHO:
He would snap his axle or at worst, pop the trans.