3500 Engine

[beretta]

So ive been looking for a 3400 for some time now but have not found a decent deal yet. ive been browsing around and i found a 3500 from a 2006 G6, this guy says he bought it in 2007 for a project in a fiero but never done anything with it and it had 1,000 KM when it was purchased, sitting on a stand in a garage since.

Can the 3500 be bolted into a 96 beretta simply and make it run ?

[beretta]

the guy has a bunch of parts that can go with this engine too, different crank trigger ect needed to swap it in..

what all is involved in a 3500 swap ? and can it be done..

doesnt the 3500 have the fuel delivery on demand bull crap ? how does that work and did all 3500 come with that or just certain years ? this one is from a 2006

Edit.. this is the LX9 version..

[berettaboi]

i havent looked into it enough yet, and cant remember all i have read, and likely 3*00 mod may chime in since he has experience swapping parts...

but i believe you pull a few parts off of the 3100-3400 to take away those fancy 'on demand' options and dumb it down to our standards. i suspect it will run on a 3*00 tune, but i'm not sure if it needed the crank trigger added?

[beretta]

you can change the crank trigger or i guess put one in it because i think it doesnt have one, or buy a adaptor to use the existing crank sensor on it i think..

and its the none delivery on demand one, its the LX9 it doesnt have the vvt crap or whatever it is..

the throttle body is electronic pedal control, so you have to change the throttle body, either with a 65mm and an adapter and i dont think thats very cheap. or swap the 3400 lower and upper intake on and use the 3400 throttle body.

to make it run i think is simple, external crank sensor, change fuel rail and pressure regulator so the fuel lines can connect, i think it will run off the 96 ecm ?

I have a 97 ecm as well that will work with the tuner, just need someone that can flash it or whatever without having the car.

The simple thing i guess is swap a 3400 lower and upper intake onto it, the egr will work, the throttle body will work, use the 3400 fuel rail ect.. but im wondering how much power i would loose from the 3400 intake vers the 3500 intake. i could always port the crap out of it i guess. and later one when i want to spend $350 for a throttle body ill swap the 3500 intake on later.

[3X00-Modified]

You can not use the old crank sensor the internal trigger on the crank is completely different and the 3100/3400 ECU's will not know what to do with the signal. You need an external crank trigger to get the ignition to work, you also need to design a rear mount to go from the trans to the block on a 4t60e, as well as no one that I know of has swapped a 3500 to a 4t60e so in stock form I don't know how well that trans will hold up. Other changes shouldn't be much different than a 3400 swap, but I can't remember and I never had to deal with it, I kept the 3400 block. You have to run a 3500 oil pan so you loose the oil level sensor, you need to trick that so you don't get a dash light, and I do not know if the AC compressor mounting on the pan changed, if it did you would only have 2 bolts holding the compressor to the block, or you'd have to delete it.

As far as the top of the motor goes, you would need larger injectors, preferrably 99 3400 ones (19lb) or if you want to change the plugs you could get the 2000+ 3400 (22lb) or the trailblazer injectors (28lb). The temp sensor brings up another issue. On a 96 you have a three pin sensor on the thermostat housing, on a 3500 you have a 2 pin sensor in the head, you can get a 3 pin machined sensor to fit those threads from British Car Conversions... OR if you have the head off you could drill and re-tap that hole, but IIRC from looking at Roberts when I did his, the hole is very close to the head surface so re-drilling is a risky job. Your better off drilling the lower intake to match where the 3400 sensor was.

You need to figure out what to do with vac lines, rather simple fixes but just be prepared to have to make up some stuff if you use the 3500 upper. You also need a TCE TB adapter plate to bolt the 2 bolt TB's on the 3500 upper... You could use a 3400 TB but since the stock 3500 one is 65mm its recommended to get a larger aftermarket TB to start. The 3500 one is drive by wire so thats why you need to replace it.

The hardest thing will be getting the TCE external trigger, I do not know if they are making them right now and when they will, so you may be stuck to finding a used one someone is re-selling.

And you will have to re-tune it... A 3500 on a 3100 tune is a BAD idea... it will not run right at all.

Using a 3400 upper intake on a 3500 is not unheard of, I ran a large port 3100 upper on my 3500 top end and you will loose no power, Using a 3400 TB however thats up for debate and you could loose some since stock on a 3500 is 65mm... They actually say the air flow is better with the 3400/3100 large port upper vs the 3500 since that has a tunnel that ends mid intake and can starve 5 and 6 for air, I've never had issues though.

[Barry]

Its a great engine and its cheap.

I ran it with 3800 series 2 N/A injectors and a stock 3100 tune for a little before I went stand alone. It ran the motor but would not be suitable for daily driving or racing. Boggy and lumpy if I remember right.

If your crafty you can make your own external crank sensor pretty easy, for super cheap.

[beretta]

im pretty crafty lol. i can make pretty much anything work, if its going to be a pain for a 3500 swap i dont know what to do, i dont want to cobble things up. looking to do a clean install, so a 3400 it might be.

the 06/ 3500 is listed for $700. 1,000 KM on it, been stored inside since 2007, its a fair price i think for a new engine, i think he said he has the external crank sensor, he has a few fiero's one with a 3400 maybe and a 3.8 supercharged, and he was going to use this engine in another one or something so hes got a few swap parts.

So if you used a large port 3100 or 3400 intake and used the 3400 throttle body and ported the intakes out, i dont see how it would starve it for air, it would probably work ok for now.

I wonder whats different on the block to bolt to the trany... i guess thats why most people use a 3400 block and just the 3500 top end. to simplify things id rather just have a full 3400 or full 3500 and not miss match too many things. this motor is supposed to be like brand new 1,000 km. so kinda a shame to have to tare into it.

The 96 is my daily driver, so it would have to be swapped fairly quickly. with the 3400 being basically a drop in i should be able to start it 1 day and be done the next, i was hoping the 3500 was just as simple. i can get a 3400 for free its still in a venture van, the trany started acting up so hes had it parked for a while, has over 400,000 KM i think.

[Barry]

The front and rear bosses are different. A/C compressor fits if you enlarge the holes and trim the spacer some.

The rear bosses are moved or something. Not a big deal, just bolt a plate to them and weld the old 3100 bracket to that plate.

For crank sensor, disasseble a 7x motor and pull the ring off. Index it properly and weld it to the front of your balancer. Then make a little bracket to mount the crank sensor. at the same position it would be in the 3100 block

[Alpinestar10]

Barry if im not mistaken the 3X00 engine dont have a ring the grooves for the 7x are machined into the crank

Only the 3500 and up had rings on the crank, I may be mistaken though..

[3X00-Modified]

Yeah they are part of the crank



you'd have to find a way to index them so you could figure out where to put notches on a wheel and then how to place it on the dampener.

[Barry]

You can also cut those notches right into the front of the balancer. Getting close to the belt though.

Someone has to make that ring, I have seen them somewhere.

[Alpinestar10]

tce makes a internal 7x ring that goes on a 3500 crank its cheaper and you could easliy use that.

[3X00-Modified]

Found it here... but no info on if its being made or lead time..

http://www.britishcarconversions.com/co ... gory_id=28

[cncguy]

The 3500 internal trigger kits are in stock. Most people buy the external kits to avoid pulling the engine apart.

[LX9Power]

Me I got the old 3100 COmpressor on it and if you can use your rear tranny mount, but you have to enlage a hole further. And since you have a 96 don't wait on the tuning!

for fast install I recommend a 3400 over a 3500, but in the end the 3500 is worth it.