2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

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Koots
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2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Tue May 15, 2012 9:50 pm

My plans for a simple DD have changed recently, as I've started a new job with better pay. I still want to keep my Corsica but I have to modify the drivetrain/powertrain LOL

My first plan (still the most logical as well :evil: ) is to replace the headgasket+new bolts (done!), generic eBay header, shift kit (shipped), trans cooler (done) and a thorough tune-up. I am already half way done to this, so I will see if it works out for a few months while I gather all the necessary parts for....

My second plan, which is the standard T25/T28 turbo (new chinese knock-offs seem to work well for the diesel crowd), turbo manifold (don't mind replacing the header), all the necessary nuts/bolts/hoses/lines/fittings/piping/exhaust...etc :O:

3rdly, I have a 3.1L Corsica parts car...that may only need a minor rebuild (or nothing major at all). If I have to tear into the motor, I will research the $hit out of these motors and build it to be as reliably strong, as possible. Even if it's near stock or machined and honed for fancy new pistons, bearings, etc. I would rather have the common weakpoints taken out and upgraded as much as possible without breaking the bank...Mind you I just spent nearly $1700 on parts building a TH350 (Living anywhere near real society would cut $500 off of that), that I built to save money on rebuilding my worn out 4L80E to replace my dead 700R4 LOL

So what's your thoughts? good, bad or ugly :sparta: !!!!

I do want to keep it as a DD, but I just can't keep any vehicle stock. I like spending money on cars and trucks. I have no other expensive hobbies to waste money on, other than stuff you need to live.

F*ck, anyway...I ramble too much :beer:



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Wed May 16, 2012 1:34 pm

I'd go with the 3.1 because you have the parts there on hand. From what I hear it will still be alot of work though. There is another topic here on a 2.2 to a 3400 swap. Just check the active topics.


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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Wed May 16, 2012 4:09 pm

Cool, will do!

The 3.1 Corsica was sold to me with a "bad engine", so it could be anything from dead starter or a completely seized internally.

I would like to build it, If It's FUBAR I will find another and use what I can for scraps.

I like the V6 engines a lot, but I'm just concerned with the weight and mileage. I'm sure I willl find out what i'm gonna do soon.



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Money pit Beretta » Wed May 16, 2012 7:16 pm

Well for mileage the 3.1 is not bad. It's not all that good though vs the 2.2L. You really sure that you want to get rid of the 2.2L?

Well for just a little money you could do small mods to 2.2L. High flow cat and a WAI with a velocity stack and you would have a bit more power.


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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby GTU89 » Wed May 16, 2012 8:09 pm

Well, the V6's do pretty good for a V6, my city avg with a heavy foot is 19.x mpg.


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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Thu May 17, 2012 12:02 am

That's still very good!

I think a turbo 2.2 is how i'm feeling right now. I want it stock, but different.

I'm really gonna swing by what engine is in better condition. If the 3.1 can be cost effectively revived, then I'll swap it in with bolt ons. If the 2.2 checks out well during the headgasket change, then It will be run for a few months, while I assemble the parts I need to finish the turbo and switch over.

In the mean time, I've got a spare THM125 that I can pull, to get rebuilt. I'll strengthen as much as I can and drive it like a sensible driver LOL



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby michi » Thu May 17, 2012 10:17 am

If you want a good reliable daily driver, then go with the V6 or keep the 2.2 N/A. I am sure it will cost some $$$ when your trying to keep your turbo converted car as a daily driver...



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby scd88ga » Thu May 17, 2012 6:21 pm

I say 2.3 swap!


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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby jking18 » Thu May 17, 2012 7:37 pm

^^^X2 Agreed


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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:59 pm

Well, to dig up this old thread, I stuck around with my 2.2L and now just picked up a smoking deal on a new turbo manifold, and I've already got 2 identical turbo's that should be big enough for what I've got planned for it.

I've also got a "gift" from the previous tenants of my new house, which is a 2000 Sunfire with 2.2L that has the parts needed to upgrade my crappy 1995 injectors, so I can really start turning up the fuel for when I do eventually turbo the car.



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:49 pm

Anyway, here is some information on the stuff I"m working on.

Here is a generic pic of the manifold I went with:

Image

Which is a T3 cast-iron manifold with a 35-38MM wastegate flange built in. These aren't the highest quality known to man, but they seem to hold up perfectly fine. I think it would be important to keep the car running a little rich to keep the EGT's down and prevent cracking, which is the only issue with these eBay manifolds. It will be port matched, the flanges machined flat and ceramic painted in flat black.

The turbo I'm using is a Borg-Warner RHC6 (GM3) turbo from a mid-90's GM 6.5 turbo diesel. It has been rebuilt by some trusted and skilled diesel mechanics, who previously painted it in high heat silver, so I might just keep it that way. Specs on the turbo are:

Borgwarner/ISHI RHC6 turbocharger.

Compressor wheel: 50.3 / 70 mm 52 trim
compressor housing: 0.7 a/r

center section: oil cooled journal bearings

Turbine wheel: 64.6 /62.1 mm 77 trim
Turbine housing: 0.7 a/r


-I'm sticking with the stock wastegate for now. It should hold boost to 8-10psi, which is perfect for me. I can spend money elsewhere then, as a stock wastegate should be reasonably reliable under 14PSI and definitely better than an eBay knockoff WG.

-My exhaust setup is going to have to change. I'm currently running long-tube header, 2.25" downpipe into 2.25" glasspack, then 2.0" stock pipe and stainless "magnaflow" rip off 2.0" muffler. I'm going to try and run 2.5" the entire way through, as that's the best I can comfortably fit under the car. I still need it to have great ground clearance for the rugged terrain I live in.

-ARP headstuds will have to be purchased. I just finished a full head rebuild/refinish with new headgasket and bolts, so I'm just gonna pull each bolt one at a time and replace it with a headstud.

-I will be swapping to the 98+ style fuel injection system and either running a modified stock manifold, or custom fitting the 98+ manifold to the head. I like the idea of the weight savings of plastic intake manifolds, but the cast aluminum stock one is not that heavy and has decent sized runners, but a built in, very tiny throttle body is what hinders this setup.

I think keeping it to 5-8PSI wouldn't stress it out too much, while giving me a nice little performance boost to keep up with or surprise 3.1's and 2.3's.



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Rettax3 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:57 am

1. Glad to hear you are still working on this. I haven't seen too many of your posts for a while -I missed some of your inputs on things! Also glad you are getting back onto the site more. :good:
2. I think the turbo 2.2 build is the most unique of the options you were talking about -just for that it wins my vote. It isn't the end-all-beat-all options you have for speed, but if that is the goal, start with a different car, like a 'Vette. :roll: A quick home-modded L-body is just cool, and a really unique build amplifies that cool by X10.
3. That turbo is seriously too big for your engine. Shelf it for another project or trade it for something smaller. The 2.2s are NOT rev-happy engines like the Quads or most buildable imports. They aren't as bad as the 2.5 Iron Dukes, but they just don't like banging around in such a hurry. And they don't have the displacement to push high volumes of air at lower RPMs, so you just won't spin that turbo well. By the time it is spooled, you will need to upshift. :no: For a DD vehicle, that isn't a driveable power-booster. You would be better off undersizing your turbo than oversizing. Look for an eighties or early nineties Chrysler 2.5 or smaller with a good Garrett T-3. The yards used to be full of those cars -I have a couple of those turbos in good condition here myself, although they are not rebuilt.
4. I think the rest of your build sounds very reasonable and well thought-out. I would say at 5-8 PSI, an intercooler is even optional (certainly nice though, if budget allows), and not necessary. Just make sure all of your piping uses mandrel-bent tubing, not the crinkle-bend crap most auto-parts stores carry. Just because of the fragile nature of the manifold, you might want to consider fabricating some braces to bolt onto the engine and help support the weight of the turbo -just an idea if you are concerned about cracking.
5. Pictures man, pictures! :wink:


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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:53 am

Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated :)

-I've been bogged down with life crap, plus dealing with manic depression, so I was in hiding for a while...just lurking on the forums.

-I hear what you are saying on the turbo, as it is relatively huge, but I've heard of 1.6L SOHC Honda's using these and getting usable boost from 3000RPM+, which shouldn't be as high for me...I hope.

-I do plan on using an intercooler, but I'm not sure on what size. I'm gonna have to be really creative in routing the piping for it all, no matter what size IC I go with though.

-I hope to get pictures soon, but the car has been sitting since early Summer and I haven't touched it in that entire time. Once winter starts to pick up and work slows down at the shop, I can finally bring it back in, put it up on jackstands and get to work on it. I've only got to put in my coolant tube (stock one was rotted through), hook up the starter, change the oil and start it up. If the engine holds together well, I will then begin with the turbo stuff.



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Koots » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:03 am

Forgot to mention just for anyone with knowledge of Holset turbo's that the GM3 turbo I have is more comparable to an HY35, which will spool considerably faster than an HX35 (most popular 5.9L cummins turbo).



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Re: 2.2 Turbo, 2.3L Swap or 3.1 Rebuild/Swap?

Postby Amateur » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:38 pm

I say bring on the turbo! Seriously, it would be awesome to piecemeal and rig one up to get the 2.2 moving. Hahns racecraft has 2 different turbo kits for the L4 2.2 ohv, but I'm sure you can do it way cheaper than the 2500 they're asking. Everyone and their grandmother has a 2.3 or the 3.1. Nobody ever suspects the 2.2....seriously, I don't even expect ANYTHING out of mine. It's an engine. It gets my car from point A to point B, that's about it lol.




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