Beretta Turbo Updates

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
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wicked-irocz
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:22 pm

Quite a big update here.

I have 2.5" from the turbine housing to the back bumper now.  I am thinking of redoing one of the bends because they are press bent and one got a bit small for my taste and isnt really useful.

I trailered the car to the parking lot near the dyno.  Drove it off.  Drove it over to the dyno the next morning.  Ended up having smoke coming out the tailpipe once I got there.  I have to make the hole in my oil pan bigger because it was restricting the flow to much.  Ill do that as soon as I can.

I found that my Fuel Pressure gauge is +- 3 psi between 10-30 after trying to tune my fuel curve forever.  I hooked up a $100+ mechanical gauge and everything is working much better.

I had a spacer CNC'd for the SFMU lid to make it less touchy to fuel pressure adjustments because it was changing by 3 psi with 1/8 of a turn earlier.  Worked out great.

For the idle pressure I had to run a bleeder valve thats open only under vaccum and a restrictor but I got that set now to.

The idle and up to 2000 rpm under low load indicates nothing now compared to when it was stock other than a little louder exhaust.  Behaves just a little bit harsher than when I had a CAI and a glasspack.

I hit 1 psi on the dyno so far using the rolling road function, it felt great but I backed out fast.

Theres 2 pieces of heat shield in the pic that are not secured yet and the zip tie on the fuel pressure sender isnt cut because I will likely change that when it becomes a priority.



heres a close up pic of the oxygen sensor arrangement as requested.







94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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1988GTU
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby 1988GTU » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:48 pm

It looks like it's getting crowded, quick in there!  Nice stuff.


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IsaacHayes
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby IsaacHayes » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:54 pm

Great stuff! I like seeing 60degree esp gen3 stuff. Must be nice to have access to all the stuff you need!!


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

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wicked-irocz
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:07 pm

more updates.

Drilled a larger hole in my oil pan and changed my oil another 3 times.  Thats 6 in less than 100 front wheel miles.  This cured the smoke in the exhaust as I figured it would.  I also made my oil inlet restrictor longer while I was at it.

I used the rolling road function on the dyno some more with the wideband hooked up.  I found at less than 50% throttle the AFR is hovering between 14.5 to 14.9 :1.  Upon deceleration it ran right at 15.2:1.  The two times I got above 50% throttle and into 1 psi of boost the AFR was 10.2:1 and 10.5:1.  This is rich compared to the near ideal 11.5:1 goal I set for myself.

I got it off the dyno and ran over to the gas station to fill the other 3/4 of my tank with 92 as my testing up to this point has been with 9 month old 89 octane.  It sucked because gas was 2.69 when I checked yesterday and when I went today it was $2.96.

I then pulled off my oil return flange and upgraded the size of that to the same size as my oil pan since the wideband was confiscated for other prjects  :(

I ordered new gaskets and will put it together and hopefully have it fully operational tommarro for more testing.

edit* I made everything with a chop saw, die grinder, angle grinder, mig welder, cutting torch, cordless drill, bench grinder, and a drill press.  Maybe a few more things but nothing to fancy.  I even made my own flanges though I never want to do it again and would definatly pay the money to get CNC'd ones.






94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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rweatherford
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby rweatherford » Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:43 am

Making your own flanges bites.....   :(   BTDT.


Rex Weatherford
92 Beretta GTZ Quad4 Turbo / 5-speed (sold)
Best 1/4 ET =  13.523 @ 105.16 mph

07 Mazda 5 Black on Black (it's slow)


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wicked-irocz
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:19 pm

Another update.

I got my car back on the dyno and got the wideband, genisys, and oil temp probe hooked up.

My stock numbers with a CAI, 225 tires, and a glasspack on the stock piping indicated an average of around 106 HP.  I ran compression checks and leakage tests to verify and everything is dead on.

I started all tests with a 201 degree oil temp and continued that with my turbo set up for testing consistency. ÂÂÂ There was no ice, water, or anything else involved. ÂÂÂ The dyno is a mustang unit and I used the vehicle simulation for all testing with a weight of 3250 lbs and a hp at 55 of 11.3 according to California emissions testing specs. ÂÂÂ The dyno has an in room weather station that corrects to SAE standerds. ÂÂÂ All tests were run in second gear for obvious reasons.  All tests were run connsecutively until the numbers of three runs were within 1 hp (so after the car had run 5 or more dyno pulls and everything was heat soaked).

For the results.  Turbo set up to run 5 psi, 2.5" press bent exhaust with a decent kink by the rear spring.  :fire   I started out rich but went to 14.3 by the end of the run.  I started out with 19 psi idle, and 25 psi static fuel pressure set to a rising rate of 6:1 with 19# injectors flow matched to within 2% from my cop car (rest in the worst place ever).  I hit 55 psi right away which is correct for this but as rpms go up my fuel pressure falls to around 45 and I get to a 14.0-14.3:1 AF ratio.  The dyno says 150 hp. ÂÂÂ

Assuming that GM rates the engine stock at 160 hp and my before resulted in 106 hp that equates to 226 hp turbo'd or an increase over my base of 42%.

I never experienced knock either audibly or by computer.  I recorded like 3 frames per second during the runs.  Total timing around 5000 rpm was less than 30*.  I think my problem is fuel pump but would like more input on this.  Mcgavin may be my best help here as he said with the stock pump he was unable to produce more than 62psi.

On another note, I took it out on the highway and boy does that turbo mess with my vaccum operated cruise.  When in OD going up over a 5* incline the transmission holds OD with the TQ connverter locked, starts developing boost as the load rises even though its at like 2000 rpm and the cruise no longer has vaccum to open the throttle and I slow down.  Oh well, if I touch the gas I develop a couple psi of boost in OD at about 2000 rpm and go up the hill without downshifting.






94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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gtuturbo
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby gtuturbo » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:58 pm

How much vacuum do run at part throttle on flat road?
Just curious...  :)


Paul Keller
1988 Chevrolet Beretta GTU (turbocharged) (bought new in August 1988)
1966 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
2017 Jeep Patriot High Altitude
2015 Buick Encore
2015 GMC Acadia SLE-1

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rweatherford
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Postby rweatherford » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:58 pm

Yes your pump likely cannot keep up.  I guess the injector duty cycle is ok.

This is one reason I went with 55# injectors.  Lots of head room on stock fuel pressure.  However I do believe that Norm found the same thign at this HP level and I think I have too.  You just plain need more flow.


Rex Weatherford
92 Beretta GTZ Quad4 Turbo / 5-speed (sold)
Best 1/4 ET =  13.523 @ 105.16 mph

07 Mazda 5 Black on Black (it's slow)


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Ribz80
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby Ribz80 » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:29 am

I think 106hp sounds a bit low for a stock 3100 that healthy.  Thats more 2.8/3.1 territory.  I think 115-118hp is where you should be.  What about tq?


91' GT  SOLD
99' Saab Viggen Stg-4 315hp- in European Car Magazine  7/2006

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wicked-irocz
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Postby wicked-irocz » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:06 pm

vaccum was around 5 in Hg I believe at 55 on a flat road but Ill check better when I drive it again.

The injectors hit 17-18 ms on time at around 5000 rpm and 5 psi of boost.

I am using the stock computer and cannot adjust for anything except with fuel pressure.  So after flowing my stock and then 19# injectors I determined lowering my fuel pressure to 25 psi static, 19 psi vaccum would make the computer think I still have the stock injectors in.  I cant run much larger of an injector and be able to compensate for it.

When looking at these HP numbers remember this is a heat soaked motor with a oil temp of 201*.  I can have a water temp of 195 with the stock thermostat and have an oil temp of 150*.  Oil temp more closely affect HP.  My transmission is also very warm, which allows more slippage.  I also am using a calibrated Mustang dyno,  these give less hp than a dynojet and many dynos are not correctly calibrated.  This is why I used the same dyno for all testing.  I had the same assumpion on Hp like you did and thats why I checked the leakage.  I dont have the print outs here with me now, they are still on the computer because Im looking for more.


94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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z284pwr
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Postby z284pwr » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:25 pm

(wicked-irocz @ Apr. 22 2006,22:19)
Q
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On another note, I took it out on the highway and boy does that turbo mess with my vaccum operated cruise.  When in OD going up over a 5* incline the transmission holds OD with the TQ connverter locked, starts developing boost as the load rises even though its at like 2000 rpm and the cruise no longer has vaccum to open the throttle and I slow down.  Oh well, if I touch the gas I develop a couple psi of boost in OD at about 2000 rpm and go up the hill without downshifting.

You can try either putting in a TGP cruise thing, OR, put a check/valve in the line between the cruise and the TB.  This is what the TGPs use for the transmission, so the transmission doesn't see boost as that does bad things to it.  Same concept, I would suggest one of these for your trans too, just in case.


Brian Edwards
'73 Trans Am - 455/Auto
'79 Suburban - 454/Auto
'88 Beretta GT - 3.1/5spd
'90 Beretta Indy - 3.1/Auto
'90 TGP - 3.2 Turbo/Auto
'04 TSX - 2.4/Auto

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berettaspeed
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Postby berettaspeed » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:37 pm

you have a FMU you need the heavy duty fuel pump. not just a regular 255lph...  but on the side note.... damn good job. i have been  out for a while due to 2 jobs now. i like what you have done.


Best ET 14.313@95.37 N/A
Best MPH 14.438@95.71 N/A
89GT 5spd
3400MPFI & Boost
:wave

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gtuturbo
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Postby gtuturbo » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:39 pm

(wicked-irocz @ Apr. 23 2006,14:06)
Q
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O
T
E
vaccum was around 5 in Hg I believe at 55 on a flat road but Ill check better when I drive it again.

I run 18 " while cruising at that speed. Are you sure you don't have a leak somewhere that is giving your cruise such a small margin to work with?  ???


Paul Keller
1988 Chevrolet Beretta GTU (turbocharged) (bought new in August 1988)
1966 Oldsmobile Cutlass Convertible
2017 Jeep Patriot High Altitude
2015 Buick Encore
2015 GMC Acadia SLE-1

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IsaacHayes
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby IsaacHayes » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:59 pm

So you're just using a AFPR for dealing with boost? How is your A/F ratio and are you getting any knock?


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

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wicked-irocz
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:29 pm

By TGP cruise thing im not exactly sure what you mean, but Im guessing you mean the actuator.  Im not going to run a check valve in the line to the transmission as I have been told that the modulator will work just like it does for when you go to WOT NA, only more so, which is part of the reason 4t60-e's work so well for boost (or so ive been told).  

I have a SFMU and will have atleast 55 psi at 5 psi of boost when everythings done.  Im testing my fuel flow tommarro to see what the pump can push at 55psi.  Im likely going to go with the 190hp if I can but I think the suction side might not come in the right design.  THanks for the appreciation.

Im definatly sure I do not have a leak, I have 18" at idle and I definatly do not run at idle at 55.  Ill check again like I said but thats just what I can remember, the road was pretty hilly.

Im using a SFMU and like I said above Im getting up to above 14 to 1 at the end of the pull due to my fuel pressure dropping.  I also moved a few sensors to better work with the turbo.  So far I have neither heard nor datalogged any knock.  You can read more above.  :hammer


94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo


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