Beretta Turbo Updates

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
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KFLO 93 GT
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby KFLO 93 GT » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:40 am

I hate people that key cars.  That's just some low life bullshit.  I yelled at some kid that I saw key a car in Autozone parking lot, then got his plate number and gave that to person, and told them what the dude and his c ar looked like.  Told them to do whatever they wanted.  Hopefully they kicked some ***.  That really sucks man.  :(


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IsaacHayes
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Postby IsaacHayes » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:19 am

Man, why do people do that? I could understand if they had a personal beef with someone, but just randomly do it to a car? Is it because the car looks nice? I don't get it. They only good point I can think to say is that your car is red, and it's easier to match a flat color than metallic. My car is in several shades now because it's metallic and has pearl in the color. I gotta get the quater blended or painted all the way back. Doesn't match my door and theres a circle of miss-match color on it too. :(


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

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rweatherford
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Postby rweatherford » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:35 am

No Cutt,

Some things you can look at and see they are not built the best.  There would be less resistance flowing top to bottom.  The total amount of surface area is the same, the air moves through the core slower, and with less resistance.  I'm sure there is some physics calculation for air flow or just plain fluid flow to calculate all of that, but I know that the further and faster you push air thought a small tube the more resistance it takes, and the length make a big difference.

So the top-bottom flow even if it didn't cool the charge air as completely as going left-right (I think it would) it would make the turbo run at a lower pressure, which would make less heat in the first place.

So how does your intercooler flow?






Rex Weatherford
92 Beretta GTZ Quad4 Turbo / 5-speed (sold)
Best 1/4 ET =  13.523 @ 105.16 mph

07 Mazda 5 Black on Black (it's slow)


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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby Guest » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:40 am

Red is harder to match than you could ever imagine... my car consists of about 2-3 different shades of red right now... and in certain lights you can see it.



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IsaacHayes
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Postby IsaacHayes » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:32 pm

Can't be as far off as mine. My friend just spray'ed some red on his intrepid and I can't tell at all at a distance unless I go up close and see the slight orange peel. And his was just a 6" circle. My door looks green with too much metallic flake compared to my rear quarter which looks bright blue.... You can see the diference in mine all the time right away light or not. You don't have to look for it, it's the first thing people notice. :(

Interesting disccussion on intercoolers. I remeber seeing one (cartuning?) that had an angled side to allow even flow through the side through all the pipes.


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

nocutt
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby nocutt » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:09 pm

(rweatherford @ Apr. 25 2006,07:35)
Q
U
O
T
E
No Cutt,

Some things you can look at and see they are not built the best.  There would be less resistance flowing top to bottom.  The total amount of surface area is the same, the air moves through the core slower, and with less resistance...

Well Darn if you put it like that then I would have to be in agreement...I was only looking at the issue at face value...  :p

I think pressure loss is only one facet in terms of efficiency... there are those who will argue that some resistance is good in so far as the air going thru the IC is getting cooled maximally...with the right sized turbo and minimum pressure loss it is a toss-up.

other variables still play complimentary significance...in one word, restriction is needed and so is thermal efficiency...only thru a wet test though  :D



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IsaacHayes
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby IsaacHayes » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:43 am

I wonder if there has been some intercooler shoot outs where they use IAT on each side of the intercooler and try different setups?


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

nocutt
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Posts: 382
Joined: Wed May 02, 2001 12:43 am
Location: Lost Angels

Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby nocutt » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:03 am




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wicked-irocz
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Postby wicked-irocz » Wed May 03, 2006 11:20 pm

well, for the next line of updates.

I drove my car home with my factory pump which is 50 miles and watched my vaccumm.  I had 8 in hg at 55 with a 20 mph crosswind.  I didnt have any problems thank god.

I got it home, worked three days, then got to put my fuel pump in. ÂÂÂ

I put it up on jackstands, lowered the exhaust (which I would have modified if I had more time  :(  ), took the straps off (btw, I hate rust.  Id recommend anyone in the rust belt to do as I did and remove that crappy uncoated GM hardware they used and replace it with SS.)  Pulled the tank down, got the module out ( I didnt unhook any lines to the pump), replaced the pump (the walbro is a tight squeeze even with the small sock), got the wiring attached, broke the little spout that the module sock attaches to, fixed that, put it back in with a new o-ring (what a pain to get that together when its spring loaded), and installed a new acdelco filter with a new o ring even though I replaced both less than 5000 miles ago.

I drove back to school with no problems, once again, thank god.  I had 10-12" hg at 55mph with 0 wind and on flat road.  The cruise is working pretty decent, I guess I just didnt give it enough time last time I drove it as it will kick down after I lose about 2 mph and then pull in 3rd gear just fine.  It just wont go into boost for very long while on cruise. ÂÂÂ

I tested my fuel pressure with the expensive mechanical gauge and it read 33psi static and 28 psi under vaccum so I adjusted it back to where I wanted it but I think the guage is broken as it only returns to 5psi, not 0 anymore.  Im going to adjust the pressure based on the BLM because of that.

I havent had any time since tuesday morning though as we are testing our FSAE car and have run into a few problems.  Im hoping to get to lay up my gauge pod tommarro.

After driving it over 100 miles on the road Im pretty confident that I can have the fuel pressure messed up by quite a bit and everything will be just fine.  Im also pretty confident in the whole setup as I have yet to have any real problems other than running lean above 3 psi which I will hopefully fix on monday when Im hoping to get back on the dyno.






94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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wicked-irocz
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Thu May 11, 2006 12:40 am

Next update.

I got my gauge pod layed up, still working on it.  Still have my gauges laying there and connected to the cigarette lighter.  My cigarette lighter fell down in the console so I had to take the shifter plate off and fix that.

Ive had my car on campus 4 months a year for 3 years and now Ive been struck another 2 times since my car was keyed and ive only had it here 1 month this year.  I had someone set a box or something on my hood while they were packing and they left many fine scratches for a 2 foot length.  I got most of them out with polish so Im not to angry but then someone else did the same type of thing with a different size box two days latter and I have yet to see if polish will take it out.

I put my car back on the dyno and checked everything again.  I ran it on the drive cycle to see my BLMs and found that I need 30psi at idle until boost in order to keep my BLM happy.  I then get to 59 psi at 3 psi of boost.  I didnt change anything other than my fuel pump and I now run 3 psi insteed of 5.  Im thinking there may be a leak but I didnt hear anything and didnt have time to check.  I made 142.8hp at 4500 rpm and 180.7 lb-ft at 3750 rpm.  At 5 psi running lean I made 150.2 hp at 4500 rpm and 185.2 lb-ft at 4000.  Im not 100% sure yet but I think that crimp in the exhaust may be of some consequence now too.  I will be testing everything after I get the turbo back.  The turbo leaks oil out the back side of the turbine housing going up hills so Im going to have the oil seals inspected under warrenty as it definatly isnt due to lack of oil drainage (5/8" return line).  Im going to pull out the turbo after I get back from michigan on the 23rd.  I will then be repainting the door.  Once the turbo gets back I'll reseal all the intake plumbing, probably fix the exhaust, and get back to 5 psi.  Its too bad I have to wait so long.  :(  

I get to drive the hot 505 emissions cycle tommaro.  Ill tell you the results of the before and after tests next time.


94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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IsaacHayes
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby IsaacHayes » Thu May 11, 2006 1:55 am

Still lean at 5psi? Perhaps the injectors are being maxed out from the pressure and can't open enough. How about going to bigger injectors and re-tuning. I know it will be harder to tune for idle/etc but might help

BTW, what is BLM?

EDIT: I'm always paraniod about my car. When I had to park in a parking lot for one of my last jobs, I'd come out and it was after hours so you didn't need a tag, and there was a church next door, and people would park in there. Well it never failed every time they would park 2", YES 2" away from my drivers mirror. I had to craw in through the passenger side every time, and most of the time I would rub my ribs raw trying to fit through the door as they parked close to that side as well. Always huge SUVs. The drivers side didn't even have a space and they parked there. I should of let out the air of their tires on one side so their car tilted and left a note saying I had to make room to open my door... Anyways the point was my car has so many dents and door dings from that. People DONT CARE, and DONT THINK. My friends always ask why I park so far away, but I don't care. I'll walk thank you. I don't know what to do for your situtation, other than not drive your car there. :( Or be constantly looking to confront the people. I see so many people swing their door open and put huge dents and paint scrapes in others cars, and act like nothing happen. They probably do it all the time. :fire






Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

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wicked-irocz
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Location: South Central MN

Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Fri May 12, 2006 12:16 pm

I believe that I will not lean out at 5 psi but I have yet to do it as I said above.  This pump can push the volume and pressure. The injectors I had were still firing well at 83 psi when I flowed and matched them.  The stock injectors failed to open at like 63psi or something like that, Ill have to look again.  For a 3400 you would need larger injectors and I could even use some if I wanted.  21 pound injectors would probably be a good idea for this.

BLM is a value that is 128 when no extra fuel or no less fuel is needed.  Above 128 and the computer is injecting extra fuel as the injectors are to small or the pressure is too low.  Below 128 and its just the opposite.

I got the results from the emmissions but I dont have the time now, will update later.


94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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IsaacHayes
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Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: Missouri

Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby IsaacHayes » Fri May 12, 2006 1:40 pm

oh I read I drive at 3psi now not 5 I was assuming it still was lean. So you just haven't tested yet.  BLM= base line modulation? heh just guessing...
emmissions... what's that?  :p


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...

User avatar
wicked-irocz
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Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:21 pm
Location: South Central MN

Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby wicked-irocz » Thu May 25, 2006 10:43 pm

Ok, next update.  Emissions went alright.  I got 1.2 g/mile after and .1 g/mile before on HC.  6.2 g/mile after and 1.5 g/mile before CO.  1.3 g/mile after and .9 g/mile before NOx.  Only good one is my fuel economy went from 19.3 before to 23.5 after mpg which also shows a decrease in CO2.  The worse emissions readings could be due to the increase in length from the heads to the catalytic converter (approxamently 25" more), the decrease in catalytic converter temperature due to the turbo, and/or the decrease in efficiency from the stock converter to a race converter.  I never hit positive pressure during the drive cycle but noticed less downshifting than the before.

I took the turbo off yesterday and sent it out today for the seals to be replaced.  While taking it off I remembered what I believe to be the reason I only made 3 psi the last time on the dyno.  After my 2nd to last dyno session I tryed to adjust my wastegate only to find the bolt had siezed within the rod so I had to break the bolt off inside the rod and I extended the rod/threaded more of the bolt.  I must not have set the length right in my rush to get it together and out of the dyno cell.

Hopefully I'll get it back soon cause now its just sitting.  Well, I guess it gives me time to finish the paper and get the gauge pod done.






94 Beretta Z26 57,4xx miles
3100, auto, crank windows, power locks/trunk, A/C,
To many mods to list
-intercooler :shock:

Among beretta boards
1st Turbo 4t60-e
1st Turbo 3100
1st Turbo Z26
1st 94+ Turbo

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rweatherford
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Beretta Turbo Updates

Postby rweatherford » Fri May 26, 2006 7:02 am

BLM = Block Learn Multiplier


Rex Weatherford
92 Beretta GTZ Quad4 Turbo / 5-speed (sold)
Best 1/4 ET =  13.523 @ 105.16 mph

07 Mazda 5 Black on Black (it's slow)



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