no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

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bocephus
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no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby bocephus » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:33 pm

so my 94 3.1L wont start. it cranks, but wont start. i couldnt hear the fuel pump, i have no fuel pressure, 0v input to the ignition control mod, and no spark on any of the 6 holes. like.....everything is DEAD. fuses are good (although no voltage to fuel pump fuse and ignition fuse).

through my diagnostics, i have found i can get the fuel pump to run only when the ignition switch is at a certain position (just before it engages the starter). so i left the key/ignition in this "sweet spot", and rechecked voltage to my fuses and voltage to the ICM. all had 12v. another observation....the dash gauges are all "live" at this point to. fuel, voltage, etc are all live.

now, if i wiggle the key just a little, or turn it forward to engage the starter, i lose everything (car cranks, but i lose my gauges, fuel pump voltage, ICM voltage, and of course no spark at the plugs.

so, what in the heck is going on here? is the ignition lock switch/cylinder (whatever you call it) bad? what is inside the column that would be cutting power to my fuel pump and ICM when i turn the key far enough to engage the starter?



Bapsu
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby Bapsu » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:43 pm

I would bet on ignition lock since you dont even have power coming to the fuse... and wiggling is also telltale that you got problems with ignition cylinder.



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Rettax3
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby Rettax3 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:45 pm

The Berettas use an electronic switch UNDER the dash, mounted to the top of the steering column. The lock cylinder uses a multi-link mechanism to push/pull a rod that slides the contacts within this switch. The lock cylinder is probably fine, the switch is either loose or has gone bad.

bocephus, welcome to the site.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

bocephus
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby bocephus » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:25 pm

Rettax3 wrote:The Berettas use an electronic switch UNDER the dash, mounted to the top of the steering column. The lock cylinder uses a multi-link mechanism to push/pull a rod that slides the contacts within this switch. The lock cylinder is probably fine, the switch is either loose or has gone bad.

bocephus, welcome to the site.


Thanks for the reply! Your diagnosis seems logical to me, and I definitely want to look into it before throwing any other money/parts at it. Since this switch is on the top of the steering column, I assume I have to take the steering wheel off, and all other parts under it to access this switch?

Is the first part on this page the switch you're talking about? http://www.steeringcolumnservices.com/g ... itches.php

Is the part shown on this diagram? http://www.steeringcolumnservices.com/e ... ilt&c=6035



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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby EPfiffner » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:57 am

It looks like #81 on the exploded view, and yes it looks like the 1st item on the parts page.

You do not have to take the column apart (steering wheel, etc) to replace it. The switch is mounted to the outside of the column. You MAY have to lower the column, I have never replaced the switch on a Beretta.

For the lock cylinder/key, you do have to take the steering wheel off and compress the lock plate which requires a special tool.



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Rettax3
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby Rettax3 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Easiest to drop the column -remove the hush-panel under the dash, use a 13mm socket to remove the two bolts holding the column to the dash frame, push the column down for access, and reach up to the top of the column to see if the switch has worked loose/out of position. If it is tight, the switch is likely bad. Use a 5/16" or 8mm socket to remove the switch hardware (you will need a deep-well on one of the two). Carefully separate the actuation rod from the switch, and unplug the electrical harness. Check ALL of the connection pins for any signs of heat deterioration or corrosion. If your harness is damaged, you may want to repair that too -heat from a poor connection will cause a new switch to fail also.

I have seen ONE ignition lock cylinder fail on these cars (my '90 Turbo 'Retta left us stuck in a 7-Eleven parking lot many years ago, before I bought the car) in a way that COULD cause your symptoms -the cylinder has a gear on the end to push the linkage back and forth along the length of the column. On my car, that gear came loose and jammed. If your gear has come loose, it could cause play in the linkage -unlikely, but possible. I wouldn't even tamper with it until making sure the switch is not the problem...


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

bocephus
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby bocephus » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:47 pm

alright guys....i think you hit the nail on the head. all info has helped me ALOT.

1. i dropped the steering wheel, found the switch, and watched the mechanical linkage. that all moves free
2. the switch's hardware was tight, thus the switch was not moving back and forth
3. i checked the wire connections on the switch, and they are good, and secure. no heat issues.
4. i moved the linkage back and forth by hand and can simulate the same thing that's happening while operating it with the key switch.

i will chalk it up as it being the switch. but i do have a couple more questions...

1. there is a cable that attaches to the side of this switch. the other end attaches to the shift lever (auto trans). when i push the button on the shift lever, this cable moves. i assume this is what locks the gear selector in park when the key is in the OFF position. anyways, when looking at pictures of the ignition switch i am about to order, i dont see this mechanism being included. does this cable assembly have to come off and reattach to the new ignition switch? if so, how does it come off?

2. how does the mechanical linkage between the key and the ignition switch come apart? mine doesnt seem to just "pull apart".



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ifixalot
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby ifixalot » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:56 am

The holes for the screws of the switch are elongated for adjustment. Maybe you just need to adjust the switch.



bocephus
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Re: no fuel pump, no spark, no power to fuse

Postby bocephus » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:25 am

nope, i had the switch off and ran it manually with a screw driver. it was shot. i got the new switch in last night and all is well. thanks to those that helped!!!!!




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