TB polish

[Money pit Beretta]

Ok, I know I need a pic of what it looks like now. My EGR cleaning didn't go very well,so I took the time to polish the TB. I used Mothers Mag & Aluminum Polish. To use sandpaper would be dumb, you run a chance of screwing up the air flow. I just used my finger, pushing it in toward the throttle blade just as the air would flow all around. I did it three times, cleaning the old polish off with a paper towel and starting over again. I also made sure that I kept the polish away from the throttle blade and its shaft. As for a performance gain there wasn't all that much. I can say that I used less pedal to get moving and as it should, any changes to the throttle at any time gave a small increase in pick up.

[Money pit Beretta]

That's my finger reflecting on the blade. Yes, those are new plug wires and I should have cleaned them before the shot. The TB was left dirty to show that its not new(lol).

[Beretta Z26]

That looks real good man i'll have to do that to my TB. About how long did it take?

[wicked-irocz]

Just so you know, what you did may help the idle just cause it may have been crazy dirty to start with but definatly didnt help power.  You need to increase the size to make power, not make it shiny.

[Money pit Beretta]

Thanks Beretta Z26! I think it took me about 20min.

Ok I agree with you to a point wicked-irocz. What I did was to smooth the pathway some and help the air flow make the transition from the intake pipe to the throttle blade. With all respect, I had just done a very good job of cleaning the TB a few weeks before. As I said, I'm using half the pedal amount that I was before to get the car to move off the line. Am I making more power? I would say a little. What was done could be called a refinement. If I had a good way of making the outside lip of the TB sharp and not flat that would also help the air flow make the transition better in a very small way. Anytime you have a boundary layer big or small you will slow the the air flow. The boundary layer in the TB is still there, but not as strong. When you polish, you take a small amount of material off of what your working on. That would make a change to how the TB flows and the now smooth path would lower air resistance by a ultra small amount. I hope that I didn't come off like a jerk, I have alot of respect for you wicked. I get some of my info from a book that I read by a man named Faber called Fluid Dynamics For Physicists from Cambridge Press.

[IsaacHayes]

Big intake swap like I did and a larger TB and you'll feel it.. The polish just looks nice .... There is not going to be a measurable increase in power from the stock finish to that. I didn't even notice a difference between 52 and 56mm TBs on the 3500 intake. I had to go to 65mm before it made a difference I could feel.  

[Money pit Beretta]

Isaac, do you have a pic of the inside of the 65mm?

[Red_Bra_Black_GTZ]

(IsaacHayes @ Dec. 02 2008,20:18)QUOTEBig intake swap like I did and a larger TB and you'll feel it.. The polish just looks nice .... There is not going to be a measurable increase in power from the stock finish to that. I didn't even notice a difference between 52 and 56mm TBs on the 3500 intake. I had to go to 65mm before it made a difference I could feel. ÂÂÂ
i thought 60mm was the biggest a TB could be made.. where did u get the 65mm?

[wicked-irocz]

I was speaking from flow bench testing  

[Money pit Beretta]

Flow bench testing is something I'd like to do. I have to make sure that I put all the info in my posts. I did spend some extra time taking down the "humps" of the TB. In other words I left the area at the bottom of the humps alone for the most part. One can think of the humps as if it was a Masion jar. You know what I mean? You can pour more water out if the hump is smaller. This is a very basic way of looking at all this, but it can help. I did have a fear that people that are new to this may get the wrong idea if they read my first post wrong(didn't want them to take too much off and screw up the flow). I should have put all this in that first post. Oops, dropped the ball on that one! I must say that I hate these bell shaped TB's, a good straight wall one would be best. That will be bought for the 3.4 build.

[IsaacHayes]

EDIT : (I see you said you did this, I should have read down, but here is what I wrote: ) If you are worried about flow of the air and not the diameter of the TB, then you would want to get rid of the 3100/3400's TB's shelf there. See how it goes from 3" to 52mm, there is that flat spot. Grinding that until it tapers smoother is the best way to go. That will actually help the flow. Take the throttle shaft out and put tape over the bearing holes first so chips don't get inside everything. Then half the throttle shaft and thin the other side and you'll have increased the flow of the TB a lot.

My TB:
GM made it 65mm stock...... It's from an LX5 engine. 3.5L DOHC from an olds aurora/intrigue. I had Forced_Firebird make me and adapter to fit on my 3500 (LX9) plenum. I had to take the 3100 linkage bracket, and chop the top off, and weld a tab to bolt up the top. Or you can bend the top flat, and drill a hole, and then tap into the TB with a bolt where the throttle stop part comes out. Use the bottom bolt hole as you would on the 3100 TB. I then adapted my cruise control with some thick steel wire, an electrical crimp connector, and an e-clip to hold it on. Since my cruise is aftermarket it has a ball chain to take off the end, so it is 100% reverseable. There is one fresh air port to block, and 2 vacuum ports to block or use. I used one for my FPR since I have the 3500 plenum and don't have the stock 3100 vacuum locations. I used the 3500 PCV tube hold down bracket since the 3100 linkage bracket was choped off and would no longer fit to hold down the tube. It all looks stock and uses factory parts. Anyway here are the pics:

Modified 3100 bracket. (the 65mm bracket connects the cables in a different way. This was the easiest mod)


The hold down for the PCV. This came with my 3500 plenum


Adapter installed. The 3500 plenum has a 65mm opening stock, no porting work needed here! The white vacuum T you see there was done away with since I have more vacuum ports now with the TB to use.


Pic during the test fitting. Don't ask for the current installed pics its too cold! Those will come in Spring when I build my CAI.


It's hungry for air!!! haha

[Money pit Beretta]

Man Isaac that looks so good! Thank you for the tip on the TB! This TB work is a cold weather project. The 3.4 will go in with in a year or so, but I just want to see if I can do it and if so I'd like to pass it on to others that are stuck with their 3100's. Yes you are right, as of now I have no need for a bigger TB and getting the as much flow as I can is what I want. I'm not sure how to get the work done(what to use). I'm going to the JY to pick up some TB's, they have many, but most are not very well taken care of. The bracket you made will look stock after the clean up and paint(nice work). Love that engine and the TB looks like it's going to try to suck the paint off the strut tower! Guess with the CAI it will just have to live with sucking all the paint off the front end.

[IsaacHayes]

Thanks. The engine is the original 3100 BTW. Just with a few moderate mods. 3400 lower, 3500 upper both gasket matched to each other, LX5 TB, modified air box with K&N. And soon Wicked-Irocz 2.5" mandrel bent stainless steel exhaust which replaces the 1.5" ID downpipe and everything, along with magnaflow spiral spun metallic core stainless cat, and a 2.5" stainless dynomax ultra flo. That exhaust should give me the biggest bump in power so far, since it's the last bottle neck and will be opened up. Now if I had the exhaust first, then did the intakes, who knows that might be as big of an increase. But right now they are limited by the exhaust. Still spanks stock 3100's and more though ÂÂÂ

I tried an open cone WAI, and it's actually quieter than the 52/56mm TB's with the 65mm. Since the TB is no longer a restriction the noise went down. Which is fine with me since before the noise was too much. The first 5mins is fun, then it gets old. Doing a CAI will quieten it down more so that's cool. I hope the 2.5" exhaust is heard over the intake, but not too loud. We'll see.

I could benefit greatly from a tune. That is a ways off though since my ECM can't be tuned. Perhaps this summer I will buy a $150 megasquirt kit and assemble it and a plug and play harness to interface with the stock ECM (to control the trans) and see what happens. You know it's like what mod could I do next besides a built engine swap for more power? LOL The stock 215,000 mile 3100 keeps going so it's not getting pulled, since it's my daily driver. For being un-tuned and old it still impresses me, so that's good.  It goes up short 90* on ramps that are up hill to 60 in a matter of a few secs. Very very short. Cars will get over and I'm going faster than they are before they even catch up to me! LOL. It's fun when a vette or something does that cause I bet they are thinking hmm that little car isn't as slow as I thought haha.

I forgot to mention that to swap a 3400 lower intake on, you need to have roller rockers, or grind the lower (almost through into the runner!) to clear the ball/pivot style. To get roller rockers if your car is a 95 or 96 your heads may have notches, and you can swap them on. If you are a 96 you may have rollers anyway. If you don't have notches in your head like me, you gotta grind the LIM, or what I figured out after the fact, mod the roller rockers to fit your heads. If you were to take the pedestals off and have someone (machinist) mill the "tabs" off the bottom so they are flat, you could bolt them on since the non-roller engines have push rod guides and hardened push rods to keep them aligned. Too late now to do that to my engine (would give me some hp, with rollers) cause I think you gotta take the lower intake off to remove the rockers.... Not 100% sure though. If it was just the valve covers that's easy, but I'm not un-seating my LIM since I have the metal gaskets now and it will never need removing again.

[Money pit Beretta]

Info overload! I'll try to cool my brain down. Ok, I'll be doing a full 3.4 swap, but that was the most helpful info I have ever seen here. I'm going to lose the roller lifters and the cam because of the stage 1 cam that will go into the 3.4. I know that Moates has something that will tune the 3100,but the total cost to get everything needed to do it is $900. I still have the email from them if you need more info on this. I'm kinda screwed on the cat back, I'm stuck till I get the 3.4 in and fastlane02's headers. Hey, have you got a idea of what can be used to take out the ridge on the 3100 TB? I'm not sure what's out there to do this. I also have a fear of making the TB walls to thin when it's done(that is why I'm going to the JY to get a few of them for testing). My friend has a nice drill press with a laser and I'll use it to do the work(I have to ask first). There is a large ball buff out there for wheels that I may try with some Tripoli buffing compound. Tripoli is harsh enough to take out 220 grit sandpaper scuffs, that is if the buff works with it.

[Money pit Beretta]

Well there is nuts and there is dumb. The nuts: I now have two 95 TB's, one 94 and two 96. The dumb: I spent $205 at the junkyard to get them. The shafts are very solid in their bore and the springs are almost too strong. I never thought they would cost that much though. I hope that all this works out so I can give something back to the people of Bnet. One of the 95's is for me. We will see, I may start doing this everytime it gets cold out. Next time there is a 1/2 price day at the JY I may get more. Oops, getting a little ahead of myself!
For the Q4 and 3.1 people: I took a good look at your TB's and there is no need to change anything.