spark/ignition

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spark/ignition

Postby big a » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:38 am

i have an 89 gt 2.8l and im wanting to replace spark plugs wires and coil pack because im always haveing problems with coils going out. please let me know what to go with im looking to invest 3to 400$ on it i want the best.thanx



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Asylum » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:52 am

The ignition systems on our cars is actually one of the things GM got right and really can't be improved upon.

If you look at 99% of the quicker cars on here they are all running GM coil packs, Delco irridium plugs and a good set of Taylor wires.

There is no need for all the pretty stuff.

That is all you'll ever need.


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Re: spark/ignition

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:25 am

Please do NOT post in the Archive section. Archive is where you store items, NOT start new topics.

I'm tired of moving topics and I wish the new users would read where they are posting before they post.

Now for your ignition the best you can do is MOVE where its located. Under the front manifold its exposed to alot of heat and thats whats causing your coils to fail. Also every aftermarket over the counter replacement isn't exactly equal in quality to the ones GM used.

My car is on stock coils with Taylor wires, and NGK plugs for the spray.



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:15 am

I'm running a BWD control module and MSD coils. This is one point I will never agree with the other guys on. There is a use for coils with more voltage. MSD's are now made in China by the way. I also see no need for race wires on stock coils with no booster. Get AC plugs and BWD wires or something with the lowest ohms for the longest wire.


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Re: spark/ignition

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:32 am

Ok I went on advance to check something about what you listed, and seriously is it just me or is their website fucked up? I can't get ANY parts listed for ANY vehicle... WTF!



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:40 am

3X00, did you post that in the right topic? :)
How about locking the archive? I'm tired of this also. It's like it's the first place new people go to post. I have no idea why.

Big a, your coils are going out because you have a bad ICM.


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Re: spark/ignition

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:50 am

Well my 2 cents on the whole thing... I've tried the Aftermarket coil route... Granted I went Accel, Probably the wrong direction, but all I can say is after 5 coils I'm done with the aftermarket stuff. Right now IIRC I'm currently running the stock 05 set I got with my 3400 on my Pink car, If not then I'm running the set I replaced those Accel ones with on my old engine in the red car over 4 years ago. I have yet to see one of those fail.

Maybe MSD is better, or WAS better... With going overseas who knows.



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:55 am

I've never had a problem with MSD's. Hell my friend is still running my old Accel HEI super coil on his car and that thing has been around for close to 15 years. Yes, it's sad that the MSD coils are made in China now. I had USA built MSD coils on my 90GT and always run BWD ICM's.


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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:17 am

Here is a link to a dream http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5803
We have waste spark now, which is close to the multi spark, but not the same. I always wanted multi spark for my V8 cars. This thing is too big(about the size of an amp) and costs way too much. It would be nice to have. Oh, and you have to buy the adapters that go under the coils also(and splice some wires).

If your looking for aftermarket coils for the sake of info Summit has their own brand, Accel and MSD. I feel that the key to aftermarket coils is a BWD ICM. Delco stuff is good enough to get you by, but there are better things out there. Delco wires have twice the ohms as BWD or Bosch. Cheap wires have four times the ohms(I checked). I will say that I had alot of trouble with BWD TPS sensors. They fail quick on TB's that leak. The Delco ones are the best for the TPS.


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Re: spark/ignition

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:49 am

Thats still a waste spark system, its just saying that's a unit that will work with those type of coils... Unless you replace your 3 coils with 6 individuals... Honestly this is not necessary on these motors.

Also how have you proven that a BDW module is better than an AC delco?

I can't argue the wires, since you can test that with an Ohm meter.



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Money pit Beretta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:17 pm

As for research I don't have much on the ICM. All the stock ones I've had have gone out. That would be after 100k. I think that the BDW ICM that I put on my 90GT went over that. My test was cut short do to the loss of the car. That and I don't remember when it was put on. I did put the MSD coils and the BWD ICM on at the same time. Now I must also add that I did put some computer heat sink grease on that ICM. That could have something to do with it lasting so long(did it on the new one for the 95 too, it also has MSD coils). Over the years I have found, as I said before, that there are better things out there. Delco stuff is good, but keep in mind that GM is not out to spend big bucks on the best parts. They are better than most, but not always the best. When it comes to ignition I try to put the best that I can on for what I have(stock N/A).

That controler will work with the 3 coil set up. I read the MSD PDF on how to hook it up long ago.


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Re: spark/ignition

Postby 3X00-Modified » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:23 pm

Money pit Beretta wrote:That controler will work with the 3 coil set up. I read the MSD PDF on how to hook it up long ago.

Yeah I know, I looked that that before, but now that I have DHP, I can control the spark all I want, so its useless to me....

Even with that DIS-4 unit it's still a waste spark system though unless you do 6 individual coils.

I only ask about the BDW because I just look at that as another aftermarket replacement brand, and nothing really special. Also, until someone has a documented improvement on MPH in the 1/4 on the same day with two sets of coils, then I'll stick with stock. Or if someone wants to offer them to me to test I would do that, and I would even be willing to buy them after if it proves positive.

We don't have people who test much like this so really its all word of mouth or reputation on the brand, and typically the brand is not equal when it comes to V8 vs V6 parts...



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby 3400beretta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:17 pm

First of all, the waste spark GM coils are already outputting nearly 40,000 volts, which is extremely high for a stock vehicle especially when you compare to old distributor based systems. Of course there is a benefit of using low resistance wires, to take advantage of all that voltage! Secondly, I cannot find anywhere any definate voltage number on either MSD or accel coils. You really aren't going to get, or need for that matter, any more than 40kV. But lets just say that MSD coils do provide more voltage... the only way they can do so would be by having either more secondary windings, or less primary windings, both of which would just be sucking more current through the ICM (ohm's law). Since we all know it is amperage (current), not votage, that determines conductor sizing, sucking more amperage through the same ICM will definately make it run hotter, and more than likely shorten it's life.
I myself have have had accel coils, one of which burned out in a very short period of time. There was no difference what so ever in secondary winding resistance (between the two towers), or performance of the car between the stock gm and accel coils. MANY other people have had the same issue with the accel coils.
Also, GM more than likely would have used MANY different companys to manufacture those ICM's over the years (whoever is cheapest), and not only that but those companies would have sourced their components from different suppliers as well. To make such a general statement and say that a certain brand of ICM's are better than stock based on your own limited findings, would just be misleading.

So, in summary, your stock ICM (or any brand for that matter), and stock GM coils, coupled with a set of good low resistance wires (taylor, or the like), and some ac delco plugs would give you not only your best performing and longest lasting ignition system, but be the cheapest too.

Edit: So it seems that the MSD website does show a voltage, and what do you know, its 40,000 volts! I dont know how I missed that.



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby Barry » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:42 pm

Alot of my vr6 freinds use gm coils because they think there pretty good. I have seen alot of non GM's using our coils, so I guess there pretty good compared to whats out there.

Hell, Ive even seen them on a quad!



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Re: spark/ignition

Postby IsaacHayes » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:34 pm

Still running original 220,000+ mile coils with no problems.


Image Image 2010 project (click pic)
1994 3100 BERETTA. 200,000+ miles.
16.0 @ 84.41mph when stock. Now ???
Original L82 w/LA1, LX9, & LX5 parts!!!

soon to be OBD1 tuned...


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