Hey, that's more like it!

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KFLO 93 GT
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Hey, that's more like it!

Postby KFLO 93 GT » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:08 am

Ended up taking the GT over to the v6z24 bash last night for their drag racing at the 1/4 mile strip in Cordova, Illinois.

The weather was hot and I had a brain fart when I was gassing up before leaving for the drive there... I ended up putting in 12 gallons - which ended up being enough for the 360 mile round trip and 6 passes with gas to spare. I had about 5/8s of a tank for my passes down the track - full street trim, 17" wheels all around, and huge front brakes.

First run, after about 40 mins of cool down - new personal best! 15.050 @ 93.24 - with a 2.408 60'. Right there on that one I knew it was going to have 14s in it.

After my 4th run of struggling to launch the car - I had the monumental idea of adjusting my tire pressure. When I aired them down they were at 37psi! Ouch. I knocked the fronts down to 30psi and the car changed its tune completely. First launch out of the gate at 30 psi netted a 2.235 60' - which nearly matches the best with the auto and old set up. However, butthead behind the wheel missed 3rd and galloped to a 15.6er....

So... roll back through the pits and I'm mad, so I hot lap it right back to the lanes and run again within 6 minutes. I got lucky enough to have the track guys pair me up with Dustin's GTU and it all just felt good. And it was.

60' - 2.255
330' - 6.263
660' - 9.580 @ 74.74
1K' - 12.422
1/4 - 14.850 @ 92.59

Not to play the what if game too much, but the run prior was faster through the 330' @ 6.226 - but either way I am much more satisfied. I think that 14.7s with the brakes is achievable - and then when I swap back to the 92+ brakes and can run 15s all around that the car should live in the 14.5 - 14.6 range with a stock 3400 blowing through full exhaust.

So I'm tickled and ready to see what more I can squeeze from the car.

Video is forthcoming, it'll be youtubed. :beer:

Further thoughts: The weather overall was much like our BFest Drag day at GLD - and the way the car ran was very similar - before the tire pressure cut. I wish I would have done that at GLD - but given the similarity in performance I feel very confident that this thing will repeat this number and then run faster with better conditions, and better gas planning on my part.


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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby Barry » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:03 am

YEahhhhh man. Nice improvement!



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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby weba » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:15 am

Nice!

So you are swapping back to useless brakes for 0.2 sec at 1/4 mile? *confused*



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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby KFLO 93 GT » Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:23 am

Frankly, I think that quality pads and rotors with 92+ brakes up front and neon discs in the back with stainless lines will stop as good as the car does now.

It kind of remains to be seen though. Several factors will determine the outcome of my brake project.


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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby Asylum » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:11 am

Where's Woody??

Maybe there IS hope, LOL!

Well done Kurt!

BTW Gas is only ~6# a gallon, so it's not like there's a 1/4 of a second to be had. Plus it has been my experience that you should have at least 1/3 of a tank to prevent starvation and keep everything nice and cool under load.

But you'll get to 14.7 as you get better used to the car.


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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby woody90gtz » Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:59 pm

That's more like it. Some how my stupid auto trapped better, but that's probably due to the cut out. I thought you had a cut out too?

I'm hoping to get mine to the strip before the Northeast meet. Although right now the coils, fuel injectors, and UIM are off it. hahaha


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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:42 am

That's better, and Webba... I went from a 13.9 to a 14.6-14.8 when I put the F-body brakes on. I think they may be 2-3lbs more than Kurt's version, BUT his are larger and the more weight you push further out kills acceleration even more.

I should do one N/A run sometime just to see where I got my car now with the N-body equipment on there.

And yes Kurt, that is a much better time. :)



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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby wicked-irocz » Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:35 pm

Congrats man. I think you should lower the air pressure more and get that 60' down to 2.1!


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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby Asylum » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:41 am

KFLO 93 GT wrote:Frankly, I think that quality pads and rotors with 92+ brakes up front and neon discs in the back with stainless lines will stop as good as the car does now.

It kind of remains to be seen though. Several factors will determine the outcome of my brake project.


I agree with Kurt on this.

Good quality parts and '92+ brakes are more than enough for all but the most extreme applications.

It's the pre '91's that are downright dangerous, and I have to do something about my Quad. It's all new with GM parts and still doesn't stop worth a damn. :shock:


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'92 3500 GT gone and not really missed. It was fun. Documented 13.47 N/A.

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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby 3X00-Modified » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:06 pm

asylum wrote:
KFLO 93 GT wrote:Frankly, I think that quality pads and rotors with 92+ brakes up front and neon discs in the back with stainless lines will stop as good as the car does now.

It kind of remains to be seen though. Several factors will determine the outcome of my brake project.


I agree with Kurt on this.

Good quality parts and '92+ brakes are more than enough for all but the most extreme applications.

It's the pre '91's that are downright dangerous, and I have to do something about my Quad. It's all new with GM parts and still doesn't stop worth a damn. :shock:


Explain to me how the pre 91 brakes are SO much worse than the 92's

90:
Front rotor is 9.7" dia,
Thickness is .88"
Caliper Piston 2.241"x1.71" (Dia X Length)

93:
Front rotor is 10.2" dia
Thickness is .74"
Caliper Piston 2.241"x2" (Dia X Length)

So you have a difference of rotor that's 1/2 diameter smaller... that's 1/4 inch on each side... and its actually 1/8+" thicker than the 92+. And the caliper pistons are exactly the same diameter, one just has less length which equates to less travel.

I really can't see how these can be night and day difference. Once again I think it applies to what pads and rotors your using.

Bottom line a 10" rotor is NOT sufficient for this car. These cars should have come with the 11" rotors that come on the N-body's.



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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby Asylum » Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:17 pm

Then the GM stuff just plain sucks!

I have EEC ceramic pads on the 3500 and it stops WAY better than the '91. So ya quality parts can make a difference.

In fact I have mentioned in the past how the Quad has given me a bit of a scare a couple of times, and I'm NOT that aggressive a driver and don't tailgate, and it has all GM/AC Delco parts.


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'92 3500 GT gone and not really missed. It was fun. Documented 13.47 N/A.

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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby weba » Tue Jul 20, 2010 1:48 pm

What you have is stuck calipers or something else wrong if your car is not stopping or locking tires.
Most likely i had stuck calipers too when i have had couple times close to accident with my 92+ cars because of the lack of brakes in unexpected moments... I have a feeling that aluminum build calipers would not get stuck as often since they don't corrode that much, but as long the caliper design is floating one, it's prone to that...

The issue with both pre 92 and later brakes is too small size for the car's weight, they wont' co-operate because they get overheated too quickly. You can get racing pads that work on higher temps but those trade off cold friction.. so not recommenced for street use, oh well, at least they will heat up quickly on our cars... :D

I've made my mind years ago, that the pre92 brakes are better than the newer ones, the area the brake pad touches on the disc is the same so it does not matter that the newer discs are larger diameter. Yes it brings just a bit more of cooling area but trades off it with the disc thickness and smaller ventilation between the surfaces that is much more affective. I am using better cooling, thicker pre 92 style discs on my black 92, and so did i do with the red car. Just my personal opinion.. i also think both of the brake designs are useless.

Too bad there are no upgrade rotors available that would have the diameter of 92+ stuff and thickness of older ones.

How ever there seems to be huge variance between the aftermarket parts about the thickness/diameter of the brake pads\discs, I've seen discs with several millimeters of variance for same year...

Off course none of this matters to those people who don't do spirited driving, auto-x or road course...

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my 0.02€ :) Hmmh and i think i am repeating my self.



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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby woody90gtz » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:49 pm

I do know that my 90 GTZ even with fresh brakes did not stop nearly as well as my (heavier) 95 Z26 with stock old crap. So I have 92+ on my 91.


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Re: Hey, that's more like it!

Postby IsaacHayes » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:28 am

I can't lock up the brakes unless it's wet out on the base. Of course 225 tires probably contribute to that.


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