First car..again

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coryh8504
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First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

So, when I was 16..I was lucky enough to get my hands on a cherry 94 z26. Loved that car. Both my brother and I had a beretta as our first cars. His was a stunning 1990 gtz w41.

6 months into being the greatest driver alive..as we all think at 16..I find myself..hitting some trees, a guardrail, more trees, rolling the car 3 tines, going down an embankment, facing the opposite way in what's left of a car. That car..saved my life.

Now..I am in my mid 30's..and what do I buy..another red z26. And I bring it back to its home..200 yards from the old Wilmington delaware plant. Now she sits in my driveway and I am nothing more than a 16 year old kid again with deeper pockets, a skill to build the car as I wanted..and 19 years past the times where anyone makes parts.

After spending weeks sniffing around..not much to be had for these cars. Mostly stock replacement parts. I need some info on who still makes suspension upgrades. I'd rather have the thrill of the drive on the bendy bits of the road.

And possibly drop a 3400 in it.
That's enough rambling..just glad to be in a beretta again.


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Rettax3
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Re: First car..again

Post by Rettax3 »

Welcome back to the fold! Glad to hear the love hasn't died for these great cars. Unless you clump Firebirds, Trans Ams, and Camaros all in as one type of car, since they are all "F" Bodies, I have more Berettas than any other type of car -and that may be because they are funner to tinker with, modify, and drive than any other car I have. Maybe. :wink:
I can't help much with what direction to go for performance suspension parts, but will say that some members here used to order parts for Cavaliers, as many of the Z-24 parts (like struts) will also fit Berettas, and were much more common and so had a bigger aftermarket following. I hope that helps a little. Also I would suggest reading through some of the old threads here about Dodge Neon rear disc mods if you think that is beneficial for you, Heavy Woody's J-Body rear suspension swap, and anything else with the word "Koni" in the discussion... :D For me, finding an early-model Z51 GT in the junk-yard always made my day, just because of the extra rear sway-bar and the massive 31mm front sway bar, but all of my Berettas had special or upgraded suspensions (FE3, FE7, F40 HD) and haven't really worn out (yet) -I have been lucky.
Looking forward to seeing some pics of the 'new' car!


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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coryh8504
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Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

Am I seeing that correct that you have a 3800 swapped beretta??? I've been kicking that idea around.


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Rettax3
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Re: First car..again

Post by Rettax3 »

I wasn't the first one, but I might have been the first to say it was easy. :D I'll eventually be doing another one, a Series III Super Charged, with a five-speed swap (again) into my Yellow Indy. I have a good formula that works on it for the build. The hard one was the Quad-Cam 3.4 V-6 Turbo...
Old pic, but aside from a little extra road-grime, she still looks the same under the hood.  Runs great too.
Old pic, but aside from a little extra road-grime, she still looks the same under the hood. Runs great too.
95 Z-26 with a 95 Z-34 engine... Tight fit, only one built AFAIK.
95 Z-26 with a 95 Z-34 engine... Tight fit, only one built AFAIK.
I built the GTU well over a decade ago. I got some good feedback from the community here, but also had a handful of keyboard wrench-benders criticizing what they never heard or saw in person. :P But this has been a good, reliable, very drivable car with very few problems over the years, and hellatiously fast for a car of its' era. The 3800's incredible torque started wearing on the old five-speed I had swapped into it, I bought a brand new 0-mile F40 Six-speed transmission, the '06 had taller highway gears than any other model, so that is what I got. Only one other Beretta has been documented after that here with a six-speed, and they used an '07 transaxle on a 3500 or 3400, chopped-up the firewall for the clutch pedal assembly and some other things. My engine swap can be almost completely removed (one ground-wire cut and a couple of holes drilled into a sub-frame) and the car restored to 100% original if I ever found it worth while to do.

If you have any questions about the swap, let me know. I had the whole thing documented over on Bstuff back in the day (the other Beretta enthusiast site), but when that site died it was all lost. I have SOME of it saved on hard-copy though, and of course the car parked right out front still. :roll: .


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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coryh8504
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Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

I really really like that 380p swap. I dropped one into my old crap box 84 fiero. But..they are much more common for those swaps. Still a big thing to have a fiero. Massive following with them.

I do..want to know the map for a 3800 swap into a beretta. My Z is begging for it. Not wanting to make a race car..but something that can play on back roads and still ride down the highway for road trips. Plus to whine from the Eaton supercharger is just..addiction.

Every other place I see..says they are a pain to do. Headache of wiring and swapping and cutting. Etc etc.


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Rettax3
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Re: First car..again

Post by Rettax3 »

Essentially, I proved it can be done with basic tools required for any engine-pull, plus a hack-saw (I used a Porta-Band), and a hand-drill (I also used a welder, but not strictly necessary). I spent a TON of effort trying to make a 'Hex-aust', six pipes and six mini-mufflers out to dual side-outlets with a pneumatically-controlled butterfly valve at each tip to regulate back-pressure, but couldn't get it quiet enough. The car has my home-built headers, extremely long primary tubes entering true dual collectors under the car past the firewall (such long primary tubes push the peak torque to a slightly lower RPM, but do little more in benefit) where I still had enough room for multiple mufflers before exiting to the sides in front of the rear-wheels (the car is still pretty loud) -this short-run exhaust does a lot to increase HP numbers, and reduces rear-biasing weight, leaving more forward weight distribution to enhance traction on the drive tires. I feel I 'engineered' the car, not just 'built it', but the basic building part was overall very easy.

Some detailed info for you:
I fabricated a brace (visible in the picture) that bolted to the engine's front upper torsion-mount then was welded to a steel angle brace that bolts to the upper radiator support -this is essential, as the 3800 has enough torque to bend that radiator support dramatically if it isn't bolstered -most 3800 swaps they just cut out the support and weld-in a stiffer piece, but I didn't want to chop my GTU up at all. The bolt-on brace works 100%. There is also a drop-leg down to the rear cylinder-head to support the rear of the engine's weight, where I mounted the ignition coils, the support then bolts to an early '90s H-Body (full-size, like Fleetwood, I think) strut-support, so there is basically a capitol "H" framework riding over the engine, bolting to the strut-towers in back, the radiator upper core-support along the front, and supporting the engine at two points front and rear. I modified the SC belt-routing (mine has two accessory belts, not all 3800s did) to free-up the foremost pulley bracket, which then bolts to a small steel plate which in turn bolts to the car's front upper engine mount point, which will NOT exist on your newer '94 Beretta... Most 3800 Series II engines had a lower mount under the crank-pulley, there is a cradle bolted to the engine, I ground mine down a little to clear the shorter Beretta CV axle on the passenger-side, the rubber mount part got ditched but the cradle attached to the engine is bolted to a piece of 1.5"x2" angle, maybe 8 inches long, which in turn bolts to the passenger-side sub-frame (two holes there). The 3800 S-IIs had a few different oil-filter mounting pads available, you might have to search scrap-yards to find one that works. The filter itself is easily accessed through the passenger-side wheel-well, easier than the stock V-6... My drivetrain was initially supported by six points to the car's frame (I lost one when I put the 6-speed in), instead of the stock four. For your car, look for a '90s Grand Am with the 3.3, take the passenger-side engine mount (all of it), and you should be bolt-in ready (the 3.3 shares the 3800's block, basically, and the Grand Am's N-Body platform shares the Beretta's L-Body engine-bay and framework forward of the firewall from '92 to ~'96). Fuel lines should plug in for you, might need to be extended though. Wiring was easy for me too, but the Super Charged versions often have a multi-speed fuel pump with a separate module (mounted in the trunk on most donor cars). The module will require the use of the 'correct' fuel pump, and will need a dedicated ground-line to the fuel-sending unit -the earlier digi-dash cars, like my GTU and Yellow Indy have, offer that extra ground wire for the more finicky fuel-gauge, so I just had to cut and splice into one of them -I tapped in under the rear seat on my car, no one would ever find that small modification. I used the 3800's PCM, jumpered the transmission range sensor wires to make it think the car was in 'drive' mode, and just piggy-backed the PCM's harness in the engine-bay. Everything plugged into the Beretta harness, so far as power was concerned. I never got the car's digital tach working, but have ideas for when/if it is important enough for me, but I have an array of white-faced add-on gauges in the car, included an analog tach. Depending on which transmission you are planning to use, you might encounter some issues, but nothing too difficult.
If you have your exhaust-work done by a shop, you could have everything else done over a couple of dedicated weekends, I would think, depending on your technical abilities. PM me some time if you ever get lined-up to do this, I would be happy to assist with any technical details beyond what I've already outlined here, including wiring info.
Last edited by Rettax3 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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Rettax3
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Re: First car..again

Post by Rettax3 »

Oh, BTW, I have an '86 Fiero GT too... :wink:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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coryh8504
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Location: Delaware

Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

Awesome write up..as for my abilities..I work in the automotive collision industry. From structural welds to full on restorations.
Doesn't hurt that my step father is also. Major car guy and has a degree in electrical engineering. He did the 3800 swap in the fiero in a weekend. As for the most of it..seems to just sound like..reinforce the rad support, strut towers and brace for rear of engine. I can always browse around the in-laws shop and see what goodies he has. With an estimated half a million dollars in equipment sitting around his property..im sure I can scratch up the majority of things needed.

Sadly..the hardest part..is the salvage yards. There are not many here in Delaware. Might need a weekend yard hunt with guys to entertain myself. Might pick up a 3400 engine and 3800 engine..just in case I need spares.

Then sniff around step dads garage for old parts off his cars.

Maybe use his holden ute to get engines. Yes..he has a holden from australia. Lucky bastard.

But I will start my investigation later on. Currently car is sitting in driveway. Not running to well.


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woody90gtz
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Re: First car..again

Post by woody90gtz »

Did he LHD convert the ute or leave it? I visited Australia years ago and would looooove to bang more gears left handed.

Rettax3 can give you exact details on just about anything. Haha. I went the easier 3400 route and had a pretty awesome car, that I'd call damn near perfect for a good summer daily cruiser. Decent car for the track too.

BTW, my first car was a Beretta too. And while I sadly just sold my third one abruptly, I'm picking up the fourth one in 3 weeks. Haha


91 "SS" - WOT 3400/5spd - 13.29@101.6 - World's fastest N/A FWD Beretta
96 "T56" LS/6spd/8.8 RWD swap - 13.45@104.7 lol
GEARHEAD dezign youtube
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coryh8504
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Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

The ute is lhd to meet U.S regs. Making it street legal and in no way open to be impounded. The rest who leave theirs rhd... risk the crusher.
Yes, rettax3 and I have already spoken about technical ideas. It's been 19 years since I had my first car back. This was an impulse buy. Told the woman after the fact that we needed to road trip to pick it up. $1500 for a 96 z and drove it home. 2 hour drive and it did the typical 3100 foibles. Temp started to climb while sitting in traffic. Hit the middle of the gauge and hung for a second then proceeded its adventure to the top.

So...I had the pleasure of sitting in 100 degree heat..and then cranking the heater all the way up to expel some of the engine bay heat to cool it down.

Ooh..and the ac doesn't work. The seats are decent. But they are going to get pulled out and replaced.
Ad well as the factory steering wheel.


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Rettax3
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Re: First car..again

Post by Rettax3 »

:lol: I HATE those factory air-bag steering wheels! Square peg in a round hole -literally. Woody and I both transplanted mid-90s era Lumina steering wheels -much cleaner look/feel, I don't care for airbags either. An explosive charge waiting to punch me in the face... No, I wear a seat-belt. [Shrug]. Others can disagree, that is fine, I have my preferences too.
Z-34 wheel in '95 Z-26.
Z-34 wheel in '95 Z-26.
I suspect you may go for something fancier though?


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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coryh8504
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:09 am
Location: Delaware

Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

I'm probably gonna go with a quick disconnect style and fixed back seats. I like more of the corner carving and spirited driving..more fun.

But..I need to figure out why this thing will NOT charge or stay running. New plugs, new packs, new alternator. Just keeps dying on me. Idles for about a minute..then..death.
It all started after I changed my coils. One plug wire ripped and I was unaware until I touched the car and got a shock. So I changed plug wires and now it keeps dying.

Anyone...anyone at all.. know what the hell is going on.

I've checked all the fuses as well.


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coryh8504
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Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

Uodate!! I figured it out. Found the thread with diagram.. burnt up the fusible link at starter.

Also..will hunting down engineer who designed it like that..will be kicking him in shin.


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Rettax3
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Re: First car..again

Post by Rettax3 »

Did you replace each coil, or the whole ICM/coil pack? Check the 3pc connector from the ICM to the 7x (low res) CKP (Crankshaft Position Sensor) in the rear of the block. They get all toasty after years in the engine-bay, and start faulting-out. Wires are Purple, Yellow, and a bare wire used as a shielding lead. They should be twisted together to reduce electrical 'noise' too. If that isn't the problem, you should start from square one: Look for fuel pressure at the rails, ~30-37psi, look for spark AT THE PLUGS with an inline spark checker, (BTW, make certain the firing order is correct -if you are familiar with the 3800s, be aware that the 60-degree engines like your 3100 are backwards, i.e. #1 is passenger-side REAR, not front), then get some noid-lights and test for fuel injector pulse during cranking. One of these tests should fail, and will tell you if it is fuel delivery, ignition, or PCM (computer). Of course, if the ICM or 7X CKP circuit is out, you won't get injector pulse either, but at least if there is no spark you know to start working there.
Probably unrelated, but if the engine was heating up like that, make certain those crappy plastic LIMG (Lower Intake Manifold Gaskets) didn't split open and dump coolant into your oil-pan. If your oil is contaminated, STOP cranking on it until that is fixed. If you are going to run this engine for more than a year, replace those shitty plastic jokes with steel/rubber gaskets anyways, Fel-Pro makes them, Victor-Reinz makes them, and Dorman used to make them too.

Edit: Sorry, your update just popped up, didn't show for some reason. Glad you got it worked out.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26
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coryh8504
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Location: Delaware

Re: First car..again

Post by coryh8504 »

All gaskets were replaced by previous owner. Motor will be coming out and 3800 will be going in next year. So most of the foibles are non concerning. Just wanted to enjoy the car for a while as it is. I'm pulling the stock seats and tossing them. Unless someone wants them. They are decent condition. I wish this site would let me upload pictures. Everything I try I to big a resolution from phone.


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