Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

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Rettax3
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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby Rettax3 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:10 am

Looks great -nice easy upgrade! I am curious why you used PVC tubing for the upper rear though. ABS has all the same positive characteristics, and less of the negative ones (such as brittleness). Those coils look tight back there -how much smaller is the diameter from stock?


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:04 pm

I used PVC because I had it. I looked at a bunch of poly jack pads hoping to find one with dimensions that I could make work...but no luck.

The coil diameter in the back is the same from the second to second to last. Nothing changed there. At least I assume the Eibachs are the same as stock other than the progressive winding.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:02 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot to upload the axle alignment video I made. It never comes back to level under acceleration. It used to be about perfect when hammering on it. I also got some wheel hop for the first time. But that may be more due to the fact I haven't dialed my camber and toe back in yet. I wanted to see first if I could go lower.

https://youtu.be/KMe5koeKy3c


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby Rettax3 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:46 am

How much, if any, power (efficiency) loss do you think you have with the CV out-of-level? I know on conventional "U-joint driveshaft" drivetrains, 2-3 degrees deflection is often considered optimum (and not necessarily just for efficiency or power transfer), I do not believe CVs are nearly that restrictive, I suppose it also depends on Tri-pot vs ball-and-cage. Does it 'feel' any different?

Have you been able to feel any enhancement in the handling? Or will you need to realign the front-end first? I've wanted to do similar lowering techniques on so many of my cars but have never done it (usually too many other things to do, but that GTA of mine sticks its' nose up way too high for me). In fact, the only cars I've lowered to date are my older Plymouth B-Bodies, which can be height-adjusted with the turn of a bolt... I am pretty intrigued to see what your results are, I have a cut-off tool that is hungry and waiting. :twisted:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:46 pm

Damn. I replied to this the other day but something didn't work I guess.

I haven't had level CVs at stock height since 2005...I don't think it's a big issue. This is about 1/2" drop from where it was, which I think Eibach rates as 1" drop from stock. The axles are tripod inner and ball and cage outer. But I figure these god forsaken DSS axles will just have a new place to wear out now and maybe double my repair interval!

Handling doesn't seem any different that I can tell. I'm not driving it 10/10ths on the street though, either. A MacPherson strut design is almost immune to ride height changes, way more so than like a SLA. I checked my camber and toe after the drop and they didn't move. Still showed ~0 camber with my old crafstman pendulum angle finder, then I checked with my Tremec app and it showed -0.2deg which is great.I had set toe at 0 and it was still there.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby GT_Indy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:19 am

I think rwd drive shafts were off by a few degrees to keep the bearings always spinning in the U joints to reduce wear in one spot.
I'm not sure how that works with fwd if it changes anything.


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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:42 pm

GT_Indy wrote:I think rwd drive shafts were off by a few degrees to keep the bearings always spinning in the U joints to reduce wear in one spot.
I'm not sure how that works with fwd if it changes anything.

Exactly right, or more specifically, to keep the needle-bearings rolling and the joint lubricated, thus keeping them from wearing in one spot... But, of course zero deflection would transmit optimal power -everything has a compromise though.

If that drop does nothing but make that car look even better, it was worth every minute (of time I didn't put in myself, of course. :D ) Great job Woody. :good:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:46 pm

So, I went to the strip Saturday with Jay and got some mixed results. The track wasn't very tight and traction was an issue. Even keeping my launches 3000-3500 and gently engaging the clutch it didn't hook up for crap. But I also only aired down to 25psi and didn't do burnouts before each run because I wanted to be able to drive home. My best 60' was a 2.19 and the worst was a 2.6 something. Had a best trap of 100.7, and a worst of 98 on one of the two runs where the ECM cut out on me.

I posted on the DIY PROM section of Thirdgen.org and already have an answer to my ECM problem though, which is awesome. Another guy has had the exact same problem when emulating and it's from interference. Only happens at WOT. So I can either just burn a chip instead of emulating or try to wrap the ribbon cable of the emulator in tin foil. I'm thinking aluminum ducting tape my also work.

I talked to my neighbor and I'm going to borrow his trailer to go back for another shot at it this year. I can't end this year on a 14.03! It should go 13s or break. Jay was in a similar predicament with a 15.09 being his best run. We're both so close to the next index...

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(This dude paid $8k for this C5. Sad he's got 1/2 as much money in that as I do in my heap.) haha
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I beat Jay in the Beretta shootout! He treed me and my launch sucked but I reeled him in.
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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:04 pm

As planned, I took it back to the track on a trailer. It barely fits...had to use two sets of ramps and load it backwards. I really need to just buy a trailer and fab up some ramps that will work for low cars. My neighbor's trailer is used for derby cars and I think my truck actually classed it up! Found out it's got no brakes and the bottoms of the tail lights are busted out too. haha

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The first run I did a quick 1st gear burnout to clean the tires and it still spun to a 2.4 something 60'. I had added 2* additional timing for Power Enrichment and it brought my AFRs to 13.1-13.3. Only trapped 98mph when I was doing almost 101 a couple weeks ago. So I added some more fuel to PE and made the second run. This time I did a longer 2nd gear burnout to try and build some heat in the tires. The 60' was better there and it went 13.97@98 still. So i got my 13-sec slip, but it was still trapping low. AFR was better at about 12.6-13.0.

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So the plan was to take those 2* of timing back out and go back to the tune from 2 weeks ago that was trapping 100.7 with a DA of 1000' worse. But it sprinkled and stopped and sprinkled and stopped and then they called the rainout. And then the sun started shining...so at least i didn't have to load it back on the trailer in the rain. But those pussies could have gotten us back racing for a couple more hours! Oh well. I'm not super happy with the results, but at least it's a legit 13 that I've been looking for.

Oh and I found a couple pics from the track photographer and she wants $125 per photo. Ha! Yeah right.

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Video to come.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby Rettax3 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:49 am

Congrats! 13s, nice! It has been kind of uphill for you lately, it seems. Maybe with this goal under your belt, it will feel like a fight with the car, instead of against it?


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:38 am

Well, it's a Beretta. So I think it will continue to piss me off perpetually. Haha. But the 13 is nice. Overall I'm not real impressed with the WOT heads. I thought it would have more power than it does. Both runs were super clean with perfect shifts at 6300 and no ECM issues. It was 55ish degrees with like 50% humidity and a DA of about 500, so I would have thought it would trap better.


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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby Slinky » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:48 am

Nice, finally you squeaked into the 13s haha..
I only trap around 103-106mph usually, but with a 1.8 60', you could definitely cut alot more off with a slick setup dropping your 60' down .2-.3 (if possible with your gearing).
Also im still thinking that the old ducktapemobile is lighter than you think.


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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:39 pm

I talked to Jon at Tyler's wedding and decided to buy slicks. He was trapping slower than me with his best run N/A but running 13.5 on a 1.8 60'. Savage speed shop just happened to have some used 24.5x8.5x15 M&H Racemaster slicks. And rather than peel the burnout tires off my crosslaces I picked up a set of Rota 15x7/35mm on ebay with a black friday discount. The things are 12lbs! Add them to the slicks and it's 27lbs for the rolling stock. That's 13lbs lighter than my street setup, which has 17lb 17s...so those autox tires must be comparatively heavy. Funny thing is the 15" Rotas are lighter than the 13.4" rotors for the Camaro. haha
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Now it's Camaro time though. So the Beretta goes out in the cold on 4 old flat studded snow tires.
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Oh and I bought a trailer. No more borrowing crap! It's 1450lbs and I can lift it on and off the hitch. Has 4 wheel brakes and I got a pair of RaceRamps to make loading and unloading easy. The Beretta and Camaro are both pretty low with a lot of front overhang, so it's really the only way to do it right. I like it so far. And as soon as I get the green light from my body guy (supposed to be this week) I'll drag the Camaro up to his shop. Paint!
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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby Rettax3 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:59 am

Nice deal on the wheels, they even look good on the car! Congrats on the trailer too, we keep talking about getting one ourselves, but we haven't gotten into the local derby race-scene (yet?) so it hasn't been the top priority. Looking forward to seeing the Camaro properly dressed too! Nice to see so many things coming together for you. :good: Too bad those Z-24 wheels have been downgraded to roller status though. They are a decent rim... :pardon:


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

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Re: Project 91 "SS" 3400/5spd

Postby woody90gtz » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:42 am

So the trailer fits in the garage. Barely. I had measured and knew it would be close, but that's why I didn't buy the 18-footer. It rides pretty rattly unloaded, but backing it up is pretty easy. Way better wheelbase than the utility trailer I used all summer.
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I've had it almost a month now, so I had to cut it up and modify it. Had to cut a D-ring off to make room for a hitch receiver/winch mount. The welds are too damn good! (Wish I could say the same about the wiring...it's all god damn T-taps)
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After getting the mount welded in and finished I kinda want to raise it up a bit. The winch cable will drag on the crossbar as it is now. A couple inches would do the trick. I can buy an offset receiver to gain either 2 or 4 inches, but that's getting hokey with a receiver, receiver adapter and hitch. So I may just cut up the old winch mount from my dad's trailer and make a hitch similar to what I bought, but taller. That will be the cleanest way to do it.
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While I had the grinder out I rounded the corners of the trailer frame - I found out walking past it that they are sharp! The old man had some million dollar conspicuity tape, so I hit the 4 corners with that for good measure. I also bought a spare tire mount since it was $10...who knew trailer parts were so cheap! I tried to find a spot to keep the RaceRamps but there really isn't one. So they'll have to go in the truck.
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91 "SS" WOT 3400/5spd - 13.97@100.7 GEARHEAD dezign


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