Beretta.net

Ok here's what I got so far 3100 with 3400 top end swap port and polished. Exhaust ports cut out on the heads with 2.5 downpipe. 3400 tb, high stall out of 4cyl car, ob2 swap with race tune not sure what was done guy around the corner has dyno in his garage that he does on the side (knows what he is doing). I do know after the tune it was a whole different car. What I am wondering is what else is there I can do? Would 3500 tb help any? What internals can I do? How far can I go till I have to worry about the trans? Looking forward to inputs thanks.

You always have to worry about the trans but for internals visit wottech.com and drool.

With all the top end work 3500 heads and an upper would not gain you much. The 3500 stuff was my only thought other than the TB. As for that I'd run a TCE, but the upper will need to be matched to it. I've always hated the way they made the 3100/3400 TB. Seems to be more about pressure than velocity.
What are you using for an intake tube? WAI, CAI or stock? Can you run headers in your class? If not I know that there is some ported stock manifolds out there. Really I don't think there will be much gain from those though. For what you are doing I could be wrong on that.

Money pit Beretta wrote:With all the top end work 3500 heads and an upper would not gain you much. The 3500 stuff was my only thought other than the TB. As for that I'd run a TCE, but the upper will need to be matched to it. I've always hated the way they made the 3100/3400 TB. Seems to be more about pressure than velocity.
What are you using for an intake tube? WAI, CAI or stock? Can you run headers in your class? If not I know that there is some ported stock manifolds out there. Really I don't think there will be much gain from those though. For what you are doing I could be wrong on that.

A ported stock manifold can help a little, if you have strict inspection/emissions laws. I've done a few just for $hits and giggles and it did feel like a difference was made. That's hooking back up to stock pipes though, which aren't always the highest flowing on older vehicles. Anyway, if you've got the time, skill and patience to do it, It's not a waste of time.

I'd just run headers if you can. They are great and should compliment your port matching job too.

Just to save time: link to ported manifolds
http://www.milzymotorsports.com/3100-34 ... manifolds/

I'm with Money Pit, get a TCE throttle body. The 65mm gives amazing throttle response! (I have a funny story about when I got my TCE 65mm, but for another time lol.)

If you can find an older FFP or equivalent underdrive pulley, maybe pick up a solid torque strut mount, those do help as well and won't break the bank.

whiteretta wrote:I'm with Money Pit, get a TCE throttle body. The 65mm gives amazing throttle response! (I have a funny story about when I got my TCE 65mm, but for another time lol.)

If you can find an older FFP or equivalent underdrive pulley, maybe pick up a solid torque strut mount, those do help as well and won't break the bank.

but arent they like $300!? it be cool to have a group buy and bring it down to a $100

I have a MRZ underdrive pulley that I could get rid of. You would have to get the MRZ overdrive alt pulley. The March alt pulley that I own is metal and very heavy. Both are new and never used.
Really because you spend lots of time in high RPM I'd stick with the stock crank pulley. Unless you plan to rebuild that engine.
Aftermarket belt tensoners have a plastic wheel vs the stock thin metal one. There should be some weight savings there(not much). Hell, less drag is always good. Use that and a light weight MRZ stock size alt pulley and you might get a little faster revs.
A side note: I bought a MP Racing light weight alternator pulley and it's weight was just a little less than my reman alts cad plated pulley(didn't check stock vs reman pulleys). That would be weight in hands, I didn't have a scale to get the weights at that time. I think the MRZ is lighter than the MP, but with that said they look to be made the same. It could be that the same company or person made them both.

96B-Mike wrote:

whiteretta wrote:I'm with Money Pit, get a TCE throttle body. The 65mm gives amazing throttle response! (I have a funny story about when I got my TCE 65mm, but for another time lol.)

If you can find an older FFP or equivalent underdrive pulley, maybe pick up a solid torque strut mount, those do help as well and won't break the bank.

but arent they like $300!? it be cool to have a group buy and bring it down to a $100

Good luck doing a group buy. I still haven't even gotten back my two DRTC setups since that whole thing went bad. He is in no shape or form to do another group buy, and he actually doesn't like doing them much at all due to money loss. Hence why I say a 3500 swap is dead until someone starts to remake the external and internal crank triggers again because everything TCE is done right now.

Money pit Beretta wrote:Just to save time: link to ported manifolds
http://www.milzymotorsports.com/3100-34 ... manifolds/

exactly how much more HP you thinking it could get from this? 10-15??

A guess would be 5 to 7(at the most). Beretta 777 may get more because of his mods and he spends most of the time at high RPM. For him it's not all about HP, it's about getting the exhaust out faster. Any gain there would be helpful. He has a good amount of intake mods, but very little on exhaust. Not sure if he has a larger than stock down pipe(he could use one as we all could). After that I'd bet it's a straight pipe. The rear manifold is not as bad as the front(which is just nasty bad). The problem is that there is not much porting that can be done to the front manifold. A bit of offset on each port could help vs just hogging them out. Then the only thing left is hogging out the manifold from the rear cylinder to the cross over(which will stay the same size as stock). Velocity may gain a small amount do to the manifolds larger size. Not by much though do to the small amount that would be taken off.
I'm not sure how much "work" is really done to the ported stock manifolds by Milzy. Someone could ask and get some photos. I'm all ears and eyes on that(I would just like to know). I have a set of headers waiting to go on a "new" engine.

true..you think its worth $200??

If there was a good amount of work put in them and that work does something worthwhile. Then there is the fact that they won't rust out like headers will on a DD car that has to deal with salt. Ok, guess I'm done on the plus side.
It's hard to say, with the cost of engines down here it would be a "yes". That would be because I would be saving for years to get enough money for a swap. If my engine didn't have slap I would like to try them out to see if they do anything. With the change in down pipe that adds cost. If Dusty could make me a down pipe that would be something. If I could put the SS exhaust I have from Dusty on.....and be willing to make changes for the headers later.
Lots of "ifs"for me. So that would make it not worth it to me. For you it could be, but don't expect alot. You may feel a change that is more like putting a CAI or WAI on vs stock. All and all if you put a larger down pipe on and the SS exhaust you will be happy(er). I you feel the need to have them and can't afford headers then go for it. In the end it's just a 200 buck polished turd. Just having a little better flow is not the way to get more power and efficiency out of an engine.

I would be hesitant to waste my money, when you could probably find a pair from the junkyard, bring them to someone who can port them for cheap (leave him a set of factory gaskets too, so he knows where to stop), and also have him open up the collector for the size of pipe you want to use for the crossover/y-pipe (if upgraded).

Otherwise, buy some headers you won't be disappointed by that and it's still a lot of time and effort regardless. I still want a V6 swap, but I forgot how miserable these engines can be to work on in a W-Body, let alone an L-Body.

Money pit Beretta wrote:If there was a good amount of work put in them and that work does something worthwhile. Then there is the fact that they won't rust out like headers will on a DD car that has to deal with salt. Ok, guess I'm done on the plus side.
It's hard to say, with the cost of engines down here it would be a "yes". That would be because I would be saving for years to get enough money for a swap. If my engine didn't have slap I would like to try them out to see if they do anything. With the change in down pipe that adds cost. If Dusty could make me a down pipe that would be something. If I could put the SS exhaust I have from Dusty on.....and be willing to make changes for the headers later.
Lots of "ifs"for me. So that would make it not worth it to me. For you it could be, but don't expect alot. You may feel a change that is more like putting a CAI or WAI on vs stock. All and all if you put a larger down pipe on and the SS exhaust you will be happy(er). I you feel the need to have them and can't afford headers then go for it. In the end it's just a 200 buck polished turd. Just having a little better flow is not the way to get more power and efficiency out of an engine.

thanks for the time and your opinion