Beretta.net

One isn't better than the other. They both have their arguments for them. I'm just saying I'm more open to OBD1 than OBD2.
Oh Jon, this is funny, look what I found hahah

He still feels that way im sure of it!

you suck i really wanted that motor behind my 5 spd and headers

John was pretty motivated to sell it, and I was pretty motivated to drive up and buy it... I do know one way your 5spd and headers can be behind the motor... sell them to me! LOL

At one point in time I did want a 5-speed... I also still wouldn't mind one, but one of the reasons still stands... There are no good j/y's in my area that even have the parts to do so, or to continue to support the abuse, so the cost sky rockets since I would need to outsource everything and ship it. And then I was not using laughing gas... Now that I have that, it makes the use and ability to get consistant runs at a strip nearly impossible. I've also realized much less breaks when you don't have a 5-speed on it. Countless 100 shot runs and I have yet to destroy an axle

Yeah for drag racing the auto is more consistent, but that just means you aren't getting as much to the ground! I don't drag my car, the strip that was semi-close is gone and now it's SUPER far to get to a track. I don't feel like spending a whole day driving to get to one... I do like to see what my car runs. It surprised me when it was stock. I'd like to know what it is now, and then later after everything is done. I know the feeling Jon, not many good JY's here either.

[quote="IsaacHayes"]Yeah for drag racing the auto is more consistent, but that just means you aren't getting as much to the ground! quote]


PARDON???

Last I looked Jon and I still had the two quickest and fastest N/A cars!

You have a point eric, but I also have the most Engine mods on a 4t60e setup... no one with mods similar to me on a 5-speed has ever run in the 1/4 to get a comparable time. I'm sure a setup like mine with a 5-speed is CAPABLE of faster, but its a matter of getting it there...

Granted on your end of things, there was a 3500 5-speed that just couldn't go faster than you... so I guess in that area a 3t40 is up for debate on how much power that robs compared to a 5-speed.

yeah but he was only .04 off from being there nor did he have have them time to dial his car in as much as eric nor did he have lsd and steep gear ratio so i think he will be in the 13s if he gets his car running good enough before the track closes close to him

This isn't a knock at Barry at all, but I'm guessing Eric also had a slightly sharper tune. It's only logical to assume so given the amount of time each car had been together in their current forms at the time of the BFest NE runs.

Hopefully if we can all make it to BFest this year we can have a good size gathering of some quick cars for the drag strip night. I'm not saying many cars would be knocking on the 13 second door, but it would be cool to have 10 - 12 cars that are easily into the 14s or better.

In that event we should set up a Quick 8 or Quick 16 heads up event. That would be fun and it would be one of those small things that would encourage more people to put together some sweet builds. Obviously 2 - 3 cars would dominate it, but those events are fun to run anyways because crap happens when you run heads up. Though the chances for it to happen are lower if something else shifts for you.

KFLO 93 GT wrote:This isn't a knock at Barry at all, but I'm guessing Eric also had a slightly sharper tune. It's only logical to assume so given the amount of time each car had been together in their current forms at the time of the BFest NE runs.

This is also the same issue I have every year... I make changes and never get to test them before a fest... I hope this year I'll have time to dial it in before Bfest 2010 and maybe get my 13sec n/a times back. Its gonna take a bit, but with going back to N-body brakes that's probably half of my issue.

Ok enough off topic...



Continue with your previously scheduled thread.

Eric, chasis dyno would show exactly what gets to the ground. Unfortunately not everyone has the same motor and tune with different transmissions to compare.
Jon, what about AlexMT ? He has a 3400/3500 headers and cam. He ran in the 13's. Sure seems like the L bodies takes a lot more to get into the 13's. The J bodies got into the 13's with a gen2 with a gen3 top end and cam and headers... It's not fair I tell you!

I'll be updating the PDF tonight. Added a few more things to it. Haven't got to the VE part but have cleaned it up some and added a few more constants that need adjusting for stock L body. Cool thing is when using the 3.4 DOHC code as a stater bin, not only is the VE closer to a 3x00 than a 3.1mpfi bin is, but the shift points are all within .2-.5mph of each other! The W body has a 3.43 FDR, taller tires, and 6000 shift point. The L body has 2.97 FDR, smaller tires, and 5500 RPM shift point. When compared, the WOT MPH shift points are just about dead on. All you gotta do is change the RPM shift point from 5952 to 5500 and you're done. You can leave the max MPH to allow downshift threshold the same too, they look about what mine is stock. I'm not going to put in the shift tables for cruise/etc in the guide since those should work just fine for 99.9% of people out there (unless you swap to a higher FDR, you may want to have it upshift sooner or it might hold the gear too long on the street). Nothing really needs to change on them, but if one wants to modify the snow/performance shift tables they always could... I might do that and then put in my values to hold a gear longer eventually...

EDIT: Jon what are the upshift points @ WOT in OBDII for RPM & MPH? I can't quite figure out the stuff here... It's showing 1-2 at 40mph, 5952 RPM where it would actually be like 47mph at that RPM... 2-3 is 74 which should be like 86ish.. etc... Then 3-4 is 104mph at 2000 RPM.... ??? I'm confused on the 1-2 and 2-3 stuff, thats like a whole 900 RPM early on the MPH value. The 3-4 RPM is at 2000, not quite sure on that one either????

Oh you guys are all just having fun picking on my poor little 3t40!

Poor little bugger just hangs in the run after run after run after run yadda, yadda, yadda, and an axle let me down, on a track I should have avoided.

I have read alot about this transaxle, and Bill calls it the Powerglide of FWD options.

Lots of gearing options, and they are light and tough as hell.

And I am blessed with a guy who knows how to make one live! (Royal Purple and a big cooler)

And all that gearing advantage that was suggested with my 3.73? The 5-speed guys are geared pretty aggressively!!

Next summer is going to be REALLY interesting guys!

A "Gaggle" of 13 second Berettas!

And who will win the Second Annual Mr. Potato Head Award?

[quote="IsaacHayes"]Eric, chasis dyno would show exactly what gets to the ground. Unfortunately not everyone has the same motor and tune with different transmissions to compare.
quote]

I wrote about that extensively on a previous post "somewhere", after a very candid conversation with a tech from Dyno-Jet after a local installation and test night. (My car wasn't there.)

You can dyno your car on the local unit, and I can do mine hundreds of miles away.

EVERY Dyno is different and specific in and of itself.

Unless the two cars are on the same dyno, on the same day, the analysis is subject to interpretation, and as relevant as apples and tangerines.

Dynos are good for one thing and really one thing only. Measuring the different output of a vehicle while changes are being made "during that session"!

Other than that it's just a number producer and really dependent on the operator and the last time it was lubricated.

Dyno-Jet actually admits to a 5-7% fluctuation depending on when the unit was last serviced. 7% at 200 HP?? That is bragging rights, or a fool's opinion. Pick one.

And to be honest I really don't care about THAT number. ET and even more importantly MPH are the real world indicator of power. And I have LOTS of MPH at 3050 pounds.

But all of this is going to make for an intersting 2010. Berettas quicker and faster than were ever imagined.

Eric, you're not telling me anything I don't know. Until we can get everyone lined up at a dyno (yes at the same time and day) with similar motor setups, we don't know for sure what gets lost in between the motor and tires. The 3T40 for sure has less rotating parts than the 4T60-E, and for sure puts more power to the ground. 5spd puts even more to the ground.

Check first post for updated guide.