Beretta.net

Quick 16 races are generally run as a single elimination bracketed racing, heads up as stated - no dial ins since the majority of us don't run for consistency's sake. That's why I was thinking half of the bracket N/A and the other half power adder cars. That was kind of the point of setting it up as a Quick 16 and collecting interest now. Otherwise we could just keep the traditional format.

I'm willing to adapt and modify the plan to make it work out for the best. If we really can get 12-16 "fast" Beretta's I think watching them run heads up for an overall winner would be interesting and fairly exciting. It might also add an attraction for those who attend but aren't generally interested in going to the drag strip event to watch slow cars run all day/night.

Dusty - you, Devon and Kelly are 3 that I didn't think of. I'd certainly have to think Kelly's Z should be into the 14s easily.

KFLO 93 GT wrote:I'd certainly have to think Kelly's Z should be into the 14s easily.

Well her car is going to be the big test... since its a 3500 with a 4t60e, thats a BIG comparison to Eric's old times with his 3500 with the 3t40. I want to see how much more the 4t60e hurts the power transfer since he was able to get down to 14.1's if kelly's cant get down to 14.8's then I think that shows that a 3500 swap isn't worth over a second ET, since before everyone is comparing erics swap to other 3400 auto times, which happen to be a 4t60e, for instance Eric Wood's BEST time of 14.9 with a stripped down car... I know gearing will all be different but it will definately be nice to see if the 3500 can break away from that typical 15.1-15.3 time that is tagged to a 3400/4t60e swap/combo

Stripped down but full tank of gas buddy! haha It also ran 15.0@93.6 with full interior on an 85* day at NE07.

That is with a cutout though, which was worth a ton of power.

Yeah the cutout is definitely worth power. Even just the 4 miles worth of test driving the fresh car with open headers vs. 1k miles with a closed exhaust I bet its worth 10hp, if not more. Though that was before I had big honkin brakes, those probably cost me a few wheel horsepower. They look cool though, as much as a function over form preacher that I am, I really love the way they look. haha

KFLO 93 GT wrote:Yeah the cutout is definitely worth power. Even just the 4 miles worth of test driving the fresh car with open headers vs. 1k miles with a closed exhaust I bet its worth 10hp, if not more. Though that was before I had big honkin brakes, those probably cost me a few wheel horsepower. They look cool though, as much as a function over form preacher that I am, I really love the way they look. haha

You ricer!

I haven't even opened the cutout on the 91 yet... since I never even got to a drag strip with it this year. I can't wait to see what it traps, even if my ET is garbage I think it should trap high 90s.

KFLO 93 GT wrote:Yeah the cutout is definitely worth power. Even just the 4 miles worth of test driving the fresh car with open headers vs. 1k miles with a closed exhaust I bet its worth 10hp, if not more. Though that was before I had big honkin brakes, those probably cost me a few wheel horsepower. They look cool though, as much as a function over form preacher that I am, I really love the way they look. haha

Yeah but those have both, LOTS of function and they look nice.

I can't remember what you came up with for weight, but note the stock rotors are 11lbs each, on the heavy side... I'm going to 13lb rotors next year, so that will help alleviate the 19lb ones I'm using now... granted it stops nice but I don't need that as much as you since your doing Auto-x and such. If I find that i warp and overheat the N-body brakes with my setup next year then I may bite the bullet and go back to F-body ones, but at the same time order a set of forged pistons to bring my CR up

3X00-Modified wrote:

KFLO 93 GT wrote:I'd certainly have to think Kelly's Z should be into the 14s easily.

Well her car is going to be the big test... since its a 3500 with a 4t60e, thats a BIG comparison to Eric's old times with his 3500 with the 3t40. I want to see how much more the 4t60e hurts the power transfer since he was able to get down to 14.1's if kelly's cant get down to 14.8's then I think that shows that a 3500 swap isn't worth over a second ET, since before everyone is comparing erics swap to other 3400 auto times, which happen to be a 4t60e, for instance Eric Wood's BEST time of 14.9 with a stripped down car... I know gearing will all be different but it will definately be nice to see if the 3500 can break away from that typical 15.1-15.3 time that is tagged to a 3400/4t60e swap/combo

I think that people are ignoring the tune on my car.

Rodney has done some pretty good work here and without any other changes has taken 1/2 second off my et's and added almost 3 MPH!

From 14.50's at B'Fest Niagara with the headers just installed to 14.0's pretty consistently at the end of this summer.

That of course is history now with the parts that I'm ordering on Friday, but it will be interesting to see what happens with another 3500/auto.

I'm going to suggest 14.70's "maybe" without headers.

And I really can't see any 3400's much quicker than 14.50's/93 mph or so even with headers and 5 speeds on stock engines.

That is based on what the J Body guys are finding, as there are alot more of those to compare, and that seems to be the difference pretty much across the board.

By most realistic comparisons the 3500 is ~5 to 7 tenths quicker than a similar 3400.

Buddy Tim's 3400 Cavy with a Bill Clark 3.33 LSD 3t40 has still not run a 14 anything and seems stuck at 15.1

berettaspeed ran a 14.313 with a 3400 and a 5 speed with no headers back in 07?

^^As I recall that was a pretty stripped out car wasn't it?^^

wicked-irocz wrote:berettaspeed ran a 14.313 with a 3400 and a 5 speed with no headers back in 07?

Correct... My point exactly. (Not sure if the car was stripped down or not... Might want to ask him)

No one with a 5-speed has really put down consistent times or tried much, so really the auto guys don't have much of a concrete competition. If there were more 5-speed people who cared about their 1/4 mile time (seems to be lacking for some) then maybe the comparisons would be better.

Also Eric, your basing your 5-7 tenths quicker on what? Did you run with a 3400 on that 3t40 with the equivalent god touched tune? If not you can't say for sure that its that much better. Everyone else I know of that has put down 3400 auto times they have been OBDI.5 and 4t60e's, the best being Woody's 14.9 You don't have an equal to compare and claim a guaranteed improvement.

That is exactly why I referenced the J-Body guys. There are LOTS of them.

3500 5-speeds are ~14.1

3500 autos are ~ 14.4

3400 5-speeds are ~ 14.7

3400 autos are pretty much in the 15's.

There are some exceptions, but that is the over view, as I have noticed at the J-Body meets up here, and they generally have a couple of dozen swapped cars.

Mine was the quickest N/A car at the 2009 J-Body Bash (275 vehicles) at 14.13 where I won the Bracket and the Quick 8.

asylum wrote:That is exactly why I referenced the J-Body guys. There are LOTS of them.

3400 autos are pretty much in the 15's.

Your saying a 3400 3t40 is SLOWER than a 4t60e? or the same? Woody did a 14.9 with just no interior, and a full tank of gas... most other 3400 4t60e's were 15.3-15.2 I have a hard time believing a Heavier car with a Heavier transmission is running equivalent times of a lighter car with a lighter transmission.


Something isn't right there.

Buddy Tim's 3400 '92 Cavy has yet to see a 14 with a 3.33 LSD 3t40.

I think his best is 15.13.

But you also need to consider that right out of the box OBD 1.5/II is probably better suited to run a 3400 than OBD-1 from a 2.8/3.1

But Back on topic I still don't think there will be anywhere near 16, 14-second cars in Chicago.

asylum wrote:Buddy Tim's 3400 '92 Cavy has yet to see a 14 with a 3.33 LSD 3t40.

I think his best is 15.13.

But you also need to consider that right out of the box OBD 1.5/II is probably better suited to run a 3400 than OBD-1 from a 2.8/3.1

But Back on topic I still don't think there will be anywhere near 16, 14-second cars in Chicago.

There MAY be 16 cars on bfest at the strip, and with them going slower than 14 that will just thin the herd quicker... LOL

Whoa, topic blew up again!

I agree with you Eric, the tune is worth a hell of a lot. I think that is one of the reasons Alex has a 13.6xx @ 102 now. He thinks it is getting close to being a good tune. All be it - that is a radical build with some high dollar parts, but I think the results speak pretty highly for the combination, even if the 3400 bottom end is worked over pretty good. He thinks it has low 13s in it, we'll see what happens.

As for the car amount, I agree - I still think 16 is out there - but getting the interest peaked is what will make the attraction and the car count increase. Its not like we're beating it down the community's throat yet, and we've already established a lot of good ideas and probably have 8 cars that should - theoretically run 14.999s and better.

I think that's a good start.

Jon - iirc stepping on and off the scale with 1 of these Baer rotors produced slightly over a 17lb weight difference. But with being 1" larger they might as well weigh 19 because of the rotational mass. On this same off topic - I've found another Jbody guy locally who is selling the Jbody rear Baer kit... I don't have the money unfortunately but that would complete my show over go stopping mods for sure.