Beretta.net

A clogged Cat is a distinct possibility. Np on the oversight Wanako.

An engine needs spark, COMPRESSION, and fuel to run. You obviously have fuel, you obviously have spark. Do a compression test and you can either take the down pipe loose as suggested by PGH or you can tap on the Cat and see if it sounds like marbles in a jar. If it does, the Cat is done.

A fuel test is never a bad idea either. You could be losing fuel pressure at higher RPM's. Have you tried driving the car around or just "revving" it up? Is the car harder to start after it's been running awhile? You said before you couldn't rev it up at all? That would usually indicate a bad fuel pump. If the cat seems fine, try thumping the gas tank from the bottom and see if the problem is corrected, even temporarily. It's an old mechanics trick to test for a weak pump.

having spark is true... but is the spark at the right time? May want to look into the timing to see if the crank sensor is reading properly or if the ICM is screwing up when it gets to the high rev's. Bring the ICM to an autoparts store to see if they can test it, and also do a Ohm test on the primary and secondary poles of the coils, and just inspect or swap out the CPS since those are common to failing, but those typically make the car hard to start when they get hot.

I had a clogged cat before... car would run fine, just very sluggish and made me think my motor was on it's way out.

As far as how clogged... this was the back side of it



and this was what the front looked like

did it rattle in that cat like bolts ina dryer? haha

Actually not that much... Which is why on a hunch I just hacked the cat off I didn't do it due to a rattle or anything... I had no proof that it was clogged and couldn't see into it so cutting was my only option to find out.

I have driven the car around but not a lot. I bought this car on 2nd of april and I went to Los angeles to pick it up. I live in fresno, CA. I drove the car from los angeles to fresno with some problems. it is about 250 miles from there to here.Had a hard time leaving los angeles. car kept shutting down. when I got in the freeway i drove about 100 miles and arrived at a gas staion just to use the restroom after that the car would not start. waited a while about 15 min and drove it all the way to my home. When the car is warm it is harder to start.

Then I would replace the crank position sensor on the back of the block. It sounds like you have a messed up spark signal. That should be a relatively cheap quick test vs ICM or Coil replacement.

3X00-Modified wrote:Then I would replace the crank position sensor on the back of the block. It sounds like you have a messed up spark signal. That should be a relatively cheap quick test vs ICM or Coil replacement.

x2! My car did the exact same thing a couple of years ago when the CPS went out.

Just noticed something new the fuel pump sometimes does not make the buzz sound. as far as i know everytime you turn the ignition you are supposed to hear the buzz from the gas pump. it is loaud and clear when it start right away. but sometimes i do not hear the buzz sound. Is there any relays or fuses for the fuel pump? maybe that is going other than that i think it is the fuel pump. right now i crank it and it wont stay on and if it does it idles really bad and it sounds like it is about to turn off.

You have a bad fuel pump. Your trip home and your description of it verifies my opinion as well as hard to start when warm. All this speculation of bad CKPS (only when warm? Sorry, that's ridiculous! They are either bad or good , not good cold and bad warm) and spark screwing up via the ICM at high revs only, etc is wild speculation at best and looking for the hard solution when the easy one is right in front of you. ICM's are generally good or bad or ACT good until they get warm, like coils, then go to hell.

The fact that you cannot always hear the pump cycling when you turn the key is further confirmation.

The reason the car wouldn't start back up when you stopped to use the restroom, was the pump got hot and is weak. The reason your car idles like crap is because the fuel pressure isn't sustaining the injectors at idle. The reason it dies at 3k and above is you're putting load on a bad and already weak pump.

Time to replace that pump. Best of luck.

SGR has provided some good insight. To take it one step further, I would use a fuel pressure gauge up on the fuel rail to verify the problem.

Though the crank sensor on our Beretta is the original one (haven't had to replace it, knock on wood), I did have an intermittent sputter, under load, on my Mopar minivan that went away with (drum roll) a new crank position sensor (just offering up that I've had one, albeit a different make but same principle, that was "sometimes good").

... and your fuel filter is good?

The fuel filter looks good. This is what the pump does. I turn the ignition switch on i hear the pump, turn off switch turn it on right away no buzz sound. If i turn off ignition the wait at least 10 sec it will make buzz sound. Is this normal?

The delay is normal like that. Key on then off then on again the pump will not cycle the second time as you noted the key has to be off for 10 sec or so before it will run again.

Thanks for turning this onto another debate sgr but there are many people with 3.1's and 2.8's who can verify what I've said about the cps acting up when hot. It's a plastic part and when they go bad they crack and expand, so the hotter it gets the more the sensor is f'ed up. Waiting 15 min or so let's the plastic cool and the sensor reads better since initial start is very critical timing wise.

Put a pressure gauge on the rail and see what it is doing at 3k if it drops to 0 or really low and doesnt rise above 35 psi then yes it could be the pump, but seeing you said it smells rich and like gas when it dies I think its a spark issue.

Just my .02 but I don't run a repair shop so I'm just guessing all the time.

How about this, if you buy a cps and change it and it does nothing I'll paypal you the money for it.

where is the CPS located on these 2.8? I'll change it tomorrow.

I had an iroc one time, got it dirt cheap less then 500 bucks and was absolutely in mint shape not rust. clean in and out spotless under the hood, would not rev over 1500 rpm and over heated on the guy. he knew nothing about cars so i traded him a crapy honda and some cash. it had a new alternator almost worth what i got it for lol.

The cat converter was plugged i hollowed it out and ran great drove it for 1 winter and sold it in the spring for 1,000 bucks cuz i needed the money.

With the cat being plugged you hold it to the floor and it would not rev over 1500 rpm.

My 3.1 when it first started snaps a little and sounds pretty throaty.
When i had it pollution tested for the 1st time, it failed, exhaust temps too hot the lady said when coming back to an idle. she suggested erg valve since this would re burn some exhaust and cool the engine some, or cat converter. so i put on an aftermarket cat and took it back in with the egr unhooked, and it passed with numbers like .002 and my limits were high like 1,000 or something because she phoned and augured with them to raise my limits because it was a different engine but they wanted it to be tested as modified but she argued the fact that those cars came with the 3.1 just not in that year. 88. but she had got my limits raise without classing as modified and didnt even need to do that cuz it hit so low the 2nd time.

And did notice it blew really hot air from the heater even when the blower was off and my rad fan hooked up to come on when the key is on and it was still running warm, after i changed the cat it was much cooler, but even with the cat plugged some, it still ran fine and went like heck.

If the exhaust was restricted from a plugged converter i think it would either not rev past a certain rpm which is not your problem, and if it were plugged partially it would run hot.

I would suggest checking the connectors at the ecm for corrosion / bad connection. or the engine wire harness for breaks or splices in wires.



If you just let it idle for a while watch the temp gauge and see where it sits, if the exhaust is restricted it will tend to run warmer then normal and possibly over heat, probably have to let it idle for 20 minutes.

Or crank sensor, i dont know never had to change one before, but i dont think it is an exhaust restriction cuz it doesnt seem to have any of the symptoms i have seen from plugged cats.