Beretta.net

Why not just use a Beretta diff and VSS? I have spares of both around.

Woody -Honestly, I have a spare HM 282 from a '90 Grand Prix (no, the rumors that used to circulate around that the Grand Prixs had a spunkier first and second gear ratio are not true -I checked), and I even have a spare from an '88 Beretta GT -I dropped this one in because it was cleaner, and I forgot about the different VSS. I also have the original 282 from this car, which is disassembled and I've got the differential sitting on the floor of my garage right now, with the reluctor-ring pulled off of it and ready to be tack-welded on to the end of a CV joint for either this car or the GTU (which is also facing VSS calibration issues due to a transmission upgrade to handle the torque of the 3800, though no where near as severe as this).

But, I would rather mess around with alternatives like unique digital instrument clusters (which is just fun for me anyway) or plug-in signal modifiers like the SGI-5C than pull the current 282 apart, which requires removing the tranny from the car, which requires removing the exhaust from the engine (because of the turbo-charger's collector-box from the headers -there was no other way to clear the 60-trim Garrett T-4 that is in the car and mount it even close to where I wanted it), which would practically require removing the engine from the bay (I initially designed the headers to separate at the rear three primaries, but couldn't get comfortable with them sealing right. I didn't want to have leaking headers, and there just wasn't enough room to keep them hugged-in as close to the block as I wanted them and still have well-sealing joints on all three primaries. If I hooked them up to a 3:1 collector first, I wouldn't have gotten the 'balanced' effect I was looking for, and still wouldn't have had room to clear both the brake-booster and the battery (which is mounted on a tray recessed INTO the heater-fan plenum behind the engine on my car)). In short, each little mod I've done to this car over the years has created a row of stumbling-blocks limiting good options for the next mod, finally leading to the issue that my headers are a very solidly-built leak-proof good-flowing one-piece design that interferes with 'easy' transmission removal and practically require the engine and tranny to be serviced as a unit. Not the worst of all things, and all the benefits of each little mod make them worth-while, but I'm just sick of working on this car right now -I want to drive it already!

Now, if I had a limited slip diff for the 282, then that would be a worth-while upgrade, especially with the torque that this engine lays down. But otherwise, some day when the clutch wears out again, I'll consider just swapping trannies at that point. Or hitting the car with a sledge-hammer, whichever I am more motivated for at the time.

Rettax3 wrote: "The chip"? It sounds like you are familiar with the issue I'm facing here, but just to clarify, I mistakenly put in a Muncie/Getrag 282 from a late '80s Cavalier Z-24 2.8 V-6 car, that had the digital speedometer, into my '90 'Retta. The VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) is NOT compatible with the Beretta's speedometer. One of them uses an AC sin-wave output signal, while the other utilizes a DC square-wave 'PPM' (pulse-per-mile) setup. Or, to put it another way, the Cavy VSS is basically a miniature alternator, while the Beretta uses a Hall Effect sensor with a reluctor-ring. This isn't a simple case of trying to correct a speedometer that is reading off a little, I had no speedometer function at all. It is like trying to start your car by jump-starting its' battery with an extension-cord from your house. Additionally, the Cavalier VSS sends its' signal straight to the speedometer, NOT to the ECM like the Beretta does, so I can't just drop-in the Cavy's PROM chip to fix it, the Cavy's speedometer corrects the Sin-wave signal into DC PPM and sends that signal out to the car's ECM for speed data, essentially acting as a built-in buffer.

Some of the cavaliers and sunbirds do process the VSS information in the ECM before the cluster like the Beretta does. I don't remember what I got the PROM from, but I had the factory PROM for a J-Body and it instantly corrected the speedometer. I want to say it was for an 89 Cavalier. The only problem was that all my gauges didn't work (digital). So If I remember right, I sent both PROMs to Ben (Wot-Tech) and told him what I needed, and voila, it worked. Until that transmission went out that is.

My trans in question was from a sunbird turbo with a bell housing swap. The gearing was different slightly in that one.

Cliff8928 wrote:

Rettax3 wrote:"The chip"?

Some of the cavaliers and sunbirds do process the VSS information in the ECM before the cluster like the Beretta does. I don't remember what I got the PROM from, but I had the factory PROM for a J-Body and it instantly corrected the speedometer. I want to say it was for an 89 Cavalier. The only problem was that all my gauges didn't work (digital). So If I remember right, I sent both PROMs to Ben (Wot-Tech) and told him what I needed, and voila, it worked. Until that transmission went out that is.
My trans in question was from a sunbird turbo with a bell housing swap. The gearing was different slightly in that one.

The donor tranny I have sounds like the right year-group, but the wiring schematics I have clearly show the VSS signal running through the speedometer first, then out to the ECM and cruise-control system out from there (like the Fieros), I can even trace the wires and the diagram is right. It might be different since my donor was a digital instruments car, but that shouldn't matter if the ECM chip you are talking about can correct for the different VSS type. The ECM in my 'Retta isn't running much of anything anyway, since I'm using the Venture PCM to run the 3.4 in the car.

I'll see if I can get ahold of a J-body PROM, probably won't hurt to try it out... Thanks for the info.

Just trying to make the care look one color again, and to prevent (attempt to) further paint from escaping the confines of the body.

Ok, for those that are following the revival of the long-time sitting 93 Turquoise Beretta....My Son and I were out for a Fathers Day today, and we decided to start the 93 up again. Dropped her off the jack-stands, hooked the new battery up again and first turn of the key, vroom, she purred like a mountain lion. Let her run awhile, put her through the gears and let her reach operating temp......she did just fine.
Won't be long now before the neighbors finally see her cruise out the driveway.....

Hawk

About time(lol)!

Started the Quad today. Been a while, but it fired right up.

Thinking it may need a hub/bearing on the left front, and that would account for the fubarred tire.

Rock Auto is all over the map on pricing of replacements.

Any suggestions?

Asylum wrote:Started the Quad today. Been a while, but it fired right up.

Thinking it may need a hub/bearing on the left front, and that would account for the fubarred tire.

Rock Auto is all over the map on pricing of replacements.

Any suggestions?

Moog are the best, i broke 2 nationals in 1 year..

Asylum wrote:Started the Quad today. Been a while, but it fired right up.
Thinking it may need a hub/bearing on the left front, and that would account for the fubarred tire.
Rock Auto is all over the map on pricing of replacements.
Any suggestions?

I vote for Timken. I can't recall if I've ever seen a Timken bearing wear-out or fail, though I'm sure they do like everything else... Otherwise, I would say be a cheap-skate like me and find a decent OEM used one in the junk-yard... They used the same bearings in practically every front-wheel drive car with the 5-on-100mm lug pattern from late eighties to early 2000s, so they are certainly plentiful... I threw in a used one on the Yellow Indy (the absolutely destroyed bearing was the only reason I could not drive the car home when I bought her, and the under-torqued hub-nut was probably the only reason why the brand-new bearing failed, of course the previous owner installed it themselves and decided it was a chronic issue ).

I heard that Timken went down hill and I swear I read it here.

Money pit Beretta wrote:I heard that Timken went down hill and I swear I read it here.

Shoot that's what I meant to say Timkin not national, moog and national are the good ones I have been told and I am currently running moog, I broke two Timken bearings in under 3000 miles they completely broke apart..

I remembered that three people said that Timken were junk and I bet you were one of them. I don't know what topic that was though.

Money pit Beretta wrote:I remembered that three people said that Timken were junk and I bet you were one of them. I don't know what topic that was though.

Slinky wrote:

Money pit Beretta wrote:I heard that Timken went down hill and I swear I read it here.

Shoot that's what I meant to say Timkin not national, moog and national are the good ones I have been told and I am currently running moog, I broke two Timken bearings in under 3000 miles they completely broke apart..

!!! Wow, times they are a-changin', and usually not for the better. Well then, back to used OEM!

Moog has always been good too, yeah, but then Timken was too. Sorry to hear they aren't the same as they used to be. Although you never actually know who put it together, I've thusfar had very good luck with AutoZone's in-house 'better' brand Duralast. I think I bought a Duralast wheel-bearing and CVs from them for the Grand Prix I had for a while too, but I didn't keep the car for very long so I can't vouch for long-term durability on that part specifically. I've bought a ton of Duralast brake pads over the last several years, and although they don't last the longest (semi-metalics don't have the best longevity, but I never use ceramic pads on any of my cars because of how hard they are on the rotors, and I think I've only ever installed them for someone once -and they squeaked) they are quiet and perform very well, their alternators seem to work fine and last okay, ditto for starters too. Water pumps I've had some experiences with, no issues there either that I recall. Not the best on the market, but very good for the price.

After looking at Rock Auto's prices, I would say that if Timken can't be trusted anymore, SKF has some reasonably priced offerings and has had a good reputation...

Started replacing the locks on the Yellow Indy today. The passenger-door lock was busted, so I salvaged a complete set from a CL several months ago. Trunk-lock is in, passenger door lock is in, and I will swap in the driver's side door and glove-box tomorrow, after I have some spare keys cut for the 'new' locks.

Also test-drove the GTU, with the new transmission upgrade. Six speeds forward, plus reverse (the old 282 in the car grumped about reverse some times). I'll be doing a write-up on it soon, but I just have to say, I would rather do two 3800 swaps compared to this one six-speed swap. It wasn't fun.