Beretta.net

I was going up a hill and hurd a really SLIGHT pop noise then car just died no loud bang or anything no when you turn it over it wont start and just keeps turning over ... its a 1991 3.1l mpfi.. when you turn it over theres no grinding or anything.. checked the oil and no antifreeze in it... im thinking blown head gasket and no compression? or bad timing chain


starting to lean more twards timing chain... whats this invove to replace what kind of special tools?

Try turning the crankshaft by hand a bit, then trying to start it.

courisous as to what hand cranking is going to do vrs starter cranking it... i have a remote start so i just hit the butten and can watch what the engine does.. all the pullys turn so i know the crank shaft is turning but it turns WAYYY faster then it usualy does like the starter is only turning half the motor

Because you could FEEL if you have compression. Easy enough quick test if you dont have a compression tester.

Ok so i went outside to try to turn the crank pully over and knotived thats not guna happen unless i take the tire off... so i decided to pull on the serpintine belt and it turned the crank pully is this good or bad?

also are the 3.1mpfi a zero clearance motor? ive read that ones that are if the chain breaks it bends the valves...

Every 60* v6 is a interference motor (depending on who you ask lol long story on that one)... Some times you'll get lucky and it could land on that sweet spot where nothing hits, but odds of that are very slim.

If you did in fact snap a chain then you will possibly have some bent valves.

Pop the front valve cover off and do your starter again and see if any/all of the rockers move, if they don't move at all then yeah broken chain.

im hopeing for the best it was just one quick pop no ting ting ting or anything just pop and instant off im off to work so i pull vave cover off when i get home

If you spun the crank pully with the belt, and you didnt feel any resistance besides from the accesories im gonna say you broke the chain. Its happened to me before on a 2.8. Just a pop and then no start.

Alrighty so i just got home pulled the valve cover and sure enough the valves dont move at ALL.... so im guessing this is a 100% timing chain now...

so whats my chances of this being all thats wrong and not bent valves... chad did you have bent valves after yours broke? is it worth my spending the 70$ for tools and parts to attempt to fix the timing chain?

is there anyway without pulling the head to tell if the valves are toast?

and what all is involved in pulling timing chain can i do it with the motor in the car? thru the fender well?

.... i went to the junkyard and got a new motor for 70 dollars.

You will spend more than that on gaskets.

YMMV lol.

Whats the age of the engine? Did it run well before you broke the chain? There isnt really any way to tell if you bent the valves without removing them, or you could get a boroscope into each cylinder and see if the pistons are damaged. If you can see where they might have hit its a good bet they got bent.

If the engine has over 150k miles on it, I would start over.

our junk yards are a little more... im looking at 180 for a motor i cant really aford that not to mentine i really only have the hand tools needed to do this and dont have acess to the rest like a cherry picker. i seriously have the worst luck lol...

It will cost you more than 180 to fix the current problem...

The only way you can tell if the valves are bent would be to change the chain to a new one, and then set each and every cylinder to top dead and do a leak down test to see where the air is going and if they have good compression. You would hear air escaping out the exhaust port or the intake port if they are in-fact bent.

So i did a little searching when i got home from work tonight. I discovered my local junk yard has droped there prices on and "engine assembly" to 140 asuming this is the entire engine.. I also discovered there transmissions are only 55 and axles are 19 a pice so for like 250 i can get a complete 3400 manual swap...

I have done ALOT of reading on this my car is a 1991 Chevy Beretta with a 3.1l mpfi and a broken timing chain . so from what ive read the 1991 auto's have the same mounts as the manual is this correct? so that makes the manual swap just changing the flywheel transmission and axles?
now for the 3.4 i know you have to swap all sensors injectors and fuel rail from the 3.1 and the motor mounts for the 3.4 are the t style now to add a t style in a older beretta what is required? and what about the lower frame mount is it the same or different to?

Thats one way John, but with the heads already off to do the chain, you could just pull each valve and check them individually. Since any engine gasket set comes with new valve seals, you might as well use them.

But hes right, you are WAY deeper than 180 bucks. You can rent a shop crane for cheap for a weekend, and its not difficult to swap an engine in a weekend as long as you have a basic understanding of how to turn a wrench, and have some patience. If you can replace a timing chain, you can swap an engine.

Guess you posted at the same time I did. The 91 3400 swap is a bit more involved because the upper mounts changed from 91 to 92.

You'll need that upper mount from over by the coolant tank cut off a 92+ car, and then you need to weld that onto your chassis. Its not a big deal if you know someone with a welder.