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Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:49 am
by beretta
3.1 L engine.
Well up until a few days ago i had the engine light (bulb) out of my dash because when i first put the 3.1 in my car the egr wasnt hooked up and i was annoyed with the light.

So i put a bulb in it the other day, there is a egr on my intake but theres no wires going to it, the plug on the harness is different and the one i need i dont have a good tube for it, so i plugged the egr in and sat it up on the heater blower box to keep the engine light out and the ecm thinks its working.

So the light stays out from the time i start the car, and drive around town all day long it wont come on, but when im on the highway doing 90 KM/h its not until i slow down when it kicks on and once i shut it off and restart it goes back out until im on the highway again and when i come into town and slow down it goes back on. not every single time but it only occurs when i take my foot off the throttle after sitting at a steady speed for some time.

What could cause this ? i dont think its from the egr not being hooked up on the engine, but maybe the o2 sensor maybe picking up that its rich or something when i first let off on it.

My friend has a snap-on scanner and has scanned it before but not for this problem, so im going to stop and see him in the next day or 2 and see what he can pick up from it. just thought i would ask here first.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:54 am
by woody90gtz
If it was the EGR, it should only come on when you're lightly on the throttle on the highway. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly it shouldn't be calling for the EGR off the throttle.

Having the EGR plugged in but not in use will throw off your VE tables a little bit, but I wouldn't think it would be enough for a SES.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:12 am
by beretta
Ya i dont think its the egr, thats the only thing thats not properly hooked up though. last summer i didnt have the egr plugged in at all and the only codes it was throwing then was a problem with the egr. ive had the SES bulb out since then until now lol

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:32 pm
by 3400beretta
Yes, you will still get an occasional ses light even though it is plugged in. I know this because I did the same thing on my old car, I had a 3400 swap in it and at the time there was no adapter available.. so we had connected the egr electrically but physically it was blocked off.

You can use a paperclip to check your codes, read: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_us ... r_the_obd1

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:47 pm
by 3X00-Modified
Symptom is 100% EGR related. They will only kick a light during Decel at highway speeds... Around town it wont notice the EGR not functioning.

Digital egr's have to be 100% operational to not get a code, or removed from your ECM as a code. I know this becuase I designed the first pre 2000 3400 adpter to use with a digital egr since I did not want to see this SES light on my non tunable 95 car. I also designed the 2000+ one but then let TCE take over on that deal. Now that I have a 96 OBDII system I can remove the code or tell it to not operate, as well as I can use the newer EGR's since the plugs are the same for 96+

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:12 pm
by beretta
well i drove all over today for an hour and half and it never come on once. im going to get my friend to scan it though sometime. if i can remember what the vin was for that ecm LOL. his scanner wants a a couple digits from the vin to setup what engine it is and stuff, i think we got around that some how last time though

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:40 pm
by SuzukiGhostRider
Eighth digit in the vin on your dash is the engine code. You can get all the information a scanner would want off of the vin under the windshield on the dash.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:41 am
by 3X00-Modified
This is a 3.1 installed in a original 4cylinder car... the vin probably wont help him much at all.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:49 am
by beretta
3X00-Modified wrote:This is a 3.1 installed in a original 4cylinder car... the vin probably wont help him much at all.
I have the ownership from the cavy the engine come out of and im sure we used those numbers the last time, but they dont match whats on the ecm apparently its from a different car lol i think the 89 2.8 auto gt beretta i had. and i havent a clue what the vin was from that.

He got around it some how last time on the scanner.

Is it possible to program my ecm from the data port with a laptop and program ? my friend was saying in his scanner kit its got a cable that will work on his audi to plug into the data port and has usb. not sure if hes got one for my data port but probably does i think everything plugs into his scanner with usb.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:26 pm
by 3X00-Modified
beretta wrote:
3X00-Modified wrote:This is a 3.1 installed in a original 4cylinder car... the vin probably wont help him much at all.
I have the ownership from the cavy the engine come out of and im sure we used those numbers the last time, but they dont match whats on the ecm apparently its from a different car lol i think the 89 2.8 auto gt beretta i had. and i havent a clue what the vin was from that.

He got around it some how last time on the scanner.

Is it possible to program my ecm from the data port with a laptop and program ? my friend was saying in his scanner kit its got a cable that will work on his audi to plug into the data port and has usb. not sure if hes got one for my data port but probably does i think everything plugs into his scanner with usb.

No you need a chip programmer. Only OBDII can be done through the data port, and some OBDI.5 applications like 94-95 camaro and such... But nothing OBDI.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:22 pm
by beretta
umm i have a new problem today, engine light hasnt come on all day, but my car started running like crap. almost like it did when i had eggs in my gas tank and the fuel pump screen was plugged, but when im on the highway it seems better.

Its idling like its miss firing and shaking a little, when i take off its gutlas and all of a sudden kicks into high gear and starts spinning all over, so its like it has no power then has super power lol.

Maybe a coil braking down ? injector ? maybe its just crapy fuel or my fuel pump acting up.. it seems like maybe the fuel pump like its starving for fuel then all of a sudden it kicks in, but the pump is brand new in August.

Wondering what things i might try before going to the fuel pump, if its a coil braking down how would i test that, and how would i test the injectors. i have some 3100 injectors and im pretty sure they are the same size so if i need to i have replacements i can use.

It actually ran like this for about 20 minutes a month ago or more when i was washing it and sprayed under the front of the engine and stuff really good. so im thinking maybe a coil. i have a whole coil pack i could try. the wires are pretty new as well as the plugs. and doesnt normally give me a problem like this. it runs like this on and off sometimes its fine other times it gets worse but always stays running. been trying to get ahold of my friend tonight to scan it but havent herd from him so i assume hes out somewhere tonight. i need to get this sorted out asap as this is my only car to drive right now.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:35 pm
by beretta
scanner says idle control valve and a short on the o2 sensor

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:29 pm
by 3X00-Modified
Ok... Well I would start with changing the O2 sensor, or checking all the wiring... Then move to the IAC since that will only affect idle.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:45 pm
by beretta
i changed the IAC with another used one, seemed to work better when its first started, once it idles for a few minutes the idle goes up and down then is low and standing at the tail pipe it sounds like its flooding out kinda like its camed , chugging a little and the exhaust feels really hot.

Once you give it some throttle it seems to level out, when im driving around seems when im at 1 speed for more then a few seconds it starts chugging then levels back out again when i push the throttle so far. Could the throttle position sensor make it run like this ?

I took the o2 out and it didnt look dirty at all but i cleaned it with brake cleaner and put it back in, still runs the same, have reset the ecm like 10 times now. but ill price a o2 sensor tomorrow when i take my old axles back for my core charge.
They are $17 to $30 online depending on the make. its a 1 wire o2.

Re: Engine light coming on

Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:31 am
by 3X00-Modified
You can't clean an o2 sensor... Its shorted out and it controls everything fuel related hence the bad idle, and rich smelling exhaust. Replace it Don't just price it out.

This is a simple fix you have the answers to your problem. I don't see why you didn't just replace it rather than wasting the time cleaning it.
HOW AN OXYGEN SENSOR WORKS

The O2 sensor works like a miniature generator and produces its own voltage when it gets hot. Inside the vented cover on the end of the sensor that screws into the exhaust manifold is a zirconium ceramic bulb. The bulb is coated on the outside with a porous layer of platinum. Inside the bulb are two strips of platinum that serve as electrodes or contacts.

The outside of the bulb is exposed to the hot gases in the exhaust while the inside of the bulb is vented internally through the sensor body to the outside atmosphere. Older style oxygen sensors actually have a small hole in the body shell so air can enter the sensor, but newer style O2 sensors "breathe" through their wire connectors and have no vent hole. It is hard to believe, but the tiny amount of space between the insulation and wire provides enough room for air to seep into the sensor (for this reason, grease should never be used on O2 sensor connectors because it can block the flow of air). Venting the sensor through the wires rather than with a hole in the body reduces the risk of dirt or water contamination that could foul the sensor from the inside and cause it to fail.

The difference in oxygen levels between the exhaust and outside air within the sensor causes voltage to flow through the ceramic bulb. The greater the difference, the higher the voltage reading.

An oxygen sensor will typically generate up to about 0.9 volts when the fuel mixture is rich and there is little unburned oxygen in the exhaust. When the mixture is lean, the sensor output voltage will drop down to about 0.2 volts or less. When the air/fuel mixture is balanced or at the equilibrium point of about 14.7 to 1, the sensor will read around .45 volts.

When the computer receives a rich signal (high voltage) from the O2 sensor, it leans the fuel mixture to reduce the sensor's feedback voltage. When the O2 sensor reading goes lean (low voltage), the computer reverses again making the fuel mixture go rich. This constant flip-flopping back and forth of the fuel mixture occurs with different speeds depending on the fuel system. The transition rate is slowest on engines with feedback carburetors, typically once per second at 2500 rpm. Engines with throttle body injection are somewhat faster (2 to 3 times per second at 2500 rpm), while engines with multiport injection are the fastest (5 to 7 times per second at 2500 rpm).

The oxygen sensor must be hot (about 600 degrees or higher) before it will start to generate a voltage signal, so many oxygen sensors have a small heating element inside to help them reach operating temperature more quickly. The heating element can also prevent the sensor from cooling off too much during prolonged idle, which would cause the system to revert to open loop.

Heated O2 sensors are used mostly in newer vehicles and typically have 3 or 4 wires. Older single wire O2 sensors do not have heaters. When replacing an O2 sensor, make sure it is the same type as the original (heated or unheated)