Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Want to know how to get more out of your Beretta? Or have a mod you would like to share?
User avatar
Rettax3
Registered User
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:34 pm

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby Rettax3 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:35 am

Two things, and I wish I could find the actual study GM did on this...
1. GM did in fact do a comprehensive test with their engines to determine if running them cold was notably detrimental to their longevity as opposed to warming them up first. Interestingly, the added wear of idling them to warm them up was about the same as the increased rate of wear incurred by running a cold engine hard enough to drive it. In short, if the engine is warm enough to operate safely on the road, you aren't extending the life of the engine to any significant degree by letting it run longer to warm up at idle instead.
2. That test was done (IIRC) back in the carburetor days, now our F/I engines can be driven fine right from start-up, so the findings may be a little off, I admit. But I still doubt it makes much difference, and the added loss of time and fuel plus the extra pollution doesn't make sense.
I know most of my 4-cylinder and V-6 cars will warm right up once driving (gently of course, until warm, especially the turbo-charged ones as that DOES make a difference to the turbos), but at idle it takes much longer to get any heat from the vents... Bottom line, buy a coat and drive your car! :wink:

And no, if your FPR is working fine, it is working fine -replacing it would simply be preventive maintenance 'while you are there', and at some point you have to ask where you are going to stop -why not replace the fuel pump too? Injectors DO wear however, and start producing poor spray-patterns or stick and fire too short or too long a pulse, which is bad for MPG, performance, even engine life. Your ECM only monitors the 'average' mixture ratios, so if one injector runs rich, the computer will lean everything, including the other five out a smidge, trying to compensate -now none of your injectors are firing spot-on (not talking about the newest of the new here, just our era of cars)... They can also clog over time, so a good injector cleaner (like BG44k) can help tremendously, if they aren't actually worn out. I tend to prefer replacing them as a set, if you aren't going to have them flow-matched.


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26

User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10902
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Brooklyn CT

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby 3X00-Modified » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:06 am

I would only replace the FPR if you know the pressure is bad, aka hard starts, long cranking... or if it's leaking through the vacuum line. That's something else to check to see if that could be causing the low MPG, but typically that will cause running issues as well since it will be very rich.


Mr.Pink
Supreme Unit
Sleepy Goodness
"Beretta Guy"

Cam2363
Registered User
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby Cam2363 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:19 am

Rettax3 wrote:Two things, and I wish I could find the actual study GM did on this...
1. GM did in fact do a comprehensive test with their engines to determine if running them cold was notably detrimental to their longevity as opposed to warming them up first. Interestingly, the added wear of idling them to warm them up was about the same as the increased rate of wear incurred by running a cold engine hard enough to drive it. In short, if the engine is warm enough to operate safely on the road, you aren't extending the life of the engine to any significant degree by letting it run longer to warm up at idle instead.
2. That test was done (IIRC) back in the carburetor days, now our F/I engines can be driven fine right from start-up, so the findings may be a little off, I admit. But I still doubt it makes much difference, and the added loss of time and fuel plus the extra pollution doesn't make sense.
I know most of my 4-cylinder and V-6 cars will warm right up once driving (gently of course, until warm, especially the turbo-charged ones as that DOES make a difference to the turbos), but at idle it takes much longer to get any heat from the vents... Bottom line, buy a coat and drive your car! :wink:

And no, if your FPR is working fine, it is working fine -replacing it would simply be preventive maintenance 'while you are there', and at some point you have to ask where you are going to stop -why not replace the fuel pump too? Injectors DO wear however, and start producing poor spray-patterns or stick and fire too short or too long a pulse, which is bad for MPG, performance, even engine life. Your ECM only monitors the 'average' mixture ratios, so if one injector runs rich, the computer will lean everything, including the other five out a smidge, trying to compensate -now none of your injectors are firing spot-on (not talking about the newest of the new here, just our era of cars)... They can also clog over time, so a good injector cleaner (like BG44k) can help tremendously, if they aren't actually worn out. I tend to prefer replacing them as a set, if you aren't going to have them flow-matched.


Alright thanks. I think I will just replace them all. For the orings, should I use Oil, Silicone or gas to lube them?

3X00-Modified wrote:I would only replace the FPR if you know the pressure is bad, aka hard starts, long cranking... or if it's leaking through the vacuum line. That's something else to check to see if that could be causing the low MPG, but typically that will cause running issues as well since it will be very rich.


The car cranks and fires up almost immediately, even in the winter. So I wont replace it then. Just my injectors and O2 sensor. I might try a bottle of the BG44K first, then buy new ones if it doesnt improve.



Cam2363
Registered User
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby Cam2363 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:20 am

Cam2363 wrote:
Rettax3 wrote:Two things, and I wish I could find the actual study GM did on this...
1. GM did in fact do a comprehensive test with their engines to determine if running them cold was notably detrimental to their longevity as opposed to warming them up first. Interestingly, the added wear of idling them to warm them up was about the same as the increased rate of wear incurred by running a cold engine hard enough to drive it. In short, if the engine is warm enough to operate safely on the road, you aren't extending the life of the engine to any significant degree by letting it run longer to warm up at idle instead.
2. That test was done (IIRC) back in the carburetor days, now our F/I engines can be driven fine right from start-up, so the findings may be a little off, I admit. But I still doubt it makes much difference, and the added loss of time and fuel plus the extra pollution doesn't make sense.
I know most of my 4-cylinder and V-6 cars will warm right up once driving (gently of course, until warm, especially the turbo-charged ones as that DOES make a difference to the turbos), but at idle it takes much longer to get any heat from the vents... Bottom line, buy a coat and drive your car! :wink:

And no, if your FPR is working fine, it is working fine -replacing it would simply be preventive maintenance 'while you are there', and at some point you have to ask where you are going to stop -why not replace the fuel pump too? Injectors DO wear however, and start producing poor spray-patterns or stick and fire too short or too long a pulse, which is bad for MPG, performance, even engine life. Your ECM only monitors the 'average' mixture ratios, so if one injector runs rich, the computer will lean everything, including the other five out a smidge, trying to compensate -now none of your injectors are firing spot-on (not talking about the newest of the new here, just our era of cars)... They can also clog over time, so a good injector cleaner (like BG44k) can help tremendously, if they aren't actually worn out. I tend to prefer replacing them as a set, if you aren't going to have them flow-matched.


Alright thanks. I think I will just replace them all. For the orings, should I use Oil, Silicone or gas to lube them?

3X00-Modified wrote:I would only replace the FPR if you know the pressure is bad, aka hard starts, long cranking... or if it's leaking through the vacuum line. That's something else to check to see if that could be causing the low MPG, but typically that will cause running issues as well since it will be very rich.


The car cranks and fires up almost immediately, even in the winter. So I wont replace it then. Just my injectors and O2 sensor. I might try a bottle of the BG44K first, then buy new ones if it doesnt improve. Or maybe not, just checked and that stuff is expensiveee. New injectors are the option I will probably take then.



Cam2363
Registered User
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby Cam2363 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:27 am




User avatar
3X00-Modified
Administrator
Posts: 10902
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Brooklyn CT

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby 3X00-Modified » Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:50 pm

That's better than the cheapest versions out there, but I would make sure they come with a good guarantee and exchange option if you do buy them. Ebay is very risky for these kinds of parts, you have almost no one to turn to if they fail 3 months later.


Mr.Pink
Supreme Unit
Sleepy Goodness
"Beretta Guy"

Cam2363
Registered User
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Re: RE: Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby Cam2363 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:50 pm

3X00-Modified wrote:That's better than the cheapest versions out there, but I would make sure they come with a good guarantee and exchange option if you do buy them. Ebay is very risky for these kinds of parts, you have almost no one to turn to if they fail 3 months later.
Thanks. I actually bought those, a new O2 sensor and IAC. Put the IAC in but need to find time to do the other stuff.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Cam2363
Registered User
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Re: Any easy, cheaper ways to increase MPG?

Postby Cam2363 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:32 am

Ok, so I replaced the injectors and it seems like it did help. According to my obd2 app, I get like 18.3 mpg, now I dont know what it was like before, but this seems like an improvement. I'm also at like 210 miles one single fill up so far. Which is the second highest milage I've ever gotten, and this is with no highway driving. It could also be because I got gas at a different place, but only time will tell if there was an improvement or not

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk



Wayfaick
Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2022 10:36 am

-

Postby Wayfaick » Sun Oct 09, 2022 3:56 pm

I considered going with Mazdacomp dry sump system to increase the flow.. But obviously it bit too much set up about 4-5K.

Anyone have any other suggestion to increase oil flow volume?? Any trick to modifying stock oil pump etc??



User avatar
Rettax3
Registered User
Posts: 1761
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:34 pm

Re: -

Postby Rettax3 » Tue Oct 18, 2022 9:29 pm

Wayfaick wrote:I considered going with Mazdacomp dry sump system to increase the flow.. But obviously it bit too much set up about 4-5K.
Anyone have any other suggestion to increase oil flow volume?? Any trick to modifying stock oil pump etc??


Well, this is somewhat a different discussion than the OP's "MPG" question, but my first thought is 'what engine do you have?' and my second thought is 'why do you need/want to increase oil-flow?'

Some thoughts on it though, high-FLOW pumps are available as performance add-ons for most of these engines, try Jegs, Summit, etc if Rock Auto doesn't have them. However, many people have had serious problems running high-flow oil-pumps on otherwise stock engines -it just isn't needed nor necessarily recommended. Additionally, we don't have added-volume pans readily available for our cars, and that should definitely be taken into consideration before adding a pump that will suck the pan dry faster than normal. High PRESSURE pumps are a different animal, and if you 'need' to upgrade beyond stock specifications for some reason, best to know for sure which direction to take, and know for certain why it is needed. High PRESSURE pumps blow out old sensors, old gaskets, and can push past tired seals far too easily. Those are best left for fresh performance builds.

If you have low pressure, it is just as likely to be worn main-bearings as a tired oil-pump. On the 60-degree V-6s (2.8, 3.1 and 3100 for the Berettas), the rear Main bearing is basically an oil-control pressure-restrictor. Once worn beyond service limit, you will basically have little oil-pressure in the galleries, and won't read anything on the gauge. In short, a healthy engine that is still roughly stock won't NEED higher flow of oil, a worn engine shouldn't GET a high-flow pump (in my experience, and to my knowledge, at least).

A dry-sump conversion would be interesting to see. I ALMOST bought a 4.6 Northstar that had been converted to dry-sump, and many other pro race-level mods to it, but just didn't have enough desire to invest the money in it. Pretty cool stuff out there though. What are you working towards, any info you want to share about your Beretta?


1989 SuperCharged 3800 Srs-II (First)Six-Speed GTU
1990 Turbo 3.4 5-Speed T-Type
1990 4.0L 4-Cam 32-Valve V-8 5-Speed Indy GTi (Project)
1990 Stock(!) 3.1 MPFI Auto Indy
1995 LA1/L82 4T60E Z-26
1995 3.4 DOHC Turbo 5-Speed Z-26


Return to “Performance Mods”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests