Chronic Stalling Problem 93 Beretta

[Rettax3]

The acceleration is sluggish (0-60 in 30 seconds).
This car is much improved, but still has something wrong with it.
Any other ideas?

Well, it is a 2.2... -Sorry, just kidding (sort of)!

That black goo is, as you guessed, primarily carbon from the EGR system -and is the primary reason why I remove or disable the EGR system on most of my cars. In the long run, it does more harm than good. A lot of that goo is probably also deposits from the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system, which allows blow-by gasses from inside the crank-case to vent into the intake -I put a filter on most of my cars to keep those gasses from entering the intake, and also from just venting unfiltered into the atmosphere. A catch-can or breather/separator would work really well too and be even more environmentally friendly.

Speaking of your EGR system, it is possible it is leaking into your intake, causing exhaust-gasses to circulate into the air-stream when they aren't supposed to. You could try to block the EGR port into the intake and see if that helps...

[Wisconsinite]

Ignition coils tested fine. I'll pull the codes tomorrow.

[Wisconsinite]

Thanks Rettax3, I'll check the EGR tomorrow.

[Rettax3]

If you suspect ignition problems but the coils are fine, also check your plug-wires for cracks or discoloration marks, like brown splotches or crusty white marks, as these are often signs of high-voltage arcing through breaking-down insulation on the wires.

[Wisconsinite]

Plugs and wires are good.

At the store they pulled (you guessed it) 8 codes. Not just any 8 codes, but the exact same codes that it had the past two visits.

42 EST (spark timing) circuit
33 MAP high voltage, low vac
32 EGR
24 VSS (vehicle speed sensor)
23 IATS high temp
21 TPS voltage high
14 coolant high
13 02 open circuit

I'm baffled. I know they can't all be bad, because I've replaced some. Could I have a wiring issue? Grounding? I didn't see any bare wires anywhere, but it has had mice living in it.

[Rettax3]

Okay, making sure that the codes have actually gotten cleared, so it isn't just holding onto problems of the past -like humans do .

If these are recurring codes though, then perhaps you do have a problem with the ECM (computer), or the wiring to it. You can pull the connectors off of the ECM and check them (and the pins on the computer) for corrosion. Also, if you have a good multimeter, check the case of the ECM for good continuity to ground -if the case is showing good, then the computer is grounding properly through the ground wires. One exception to that is if the ECM grounds are bad, it can still ground through the O2 sensor, until the sensor is warm enough for the computer to switch into closed-loop mode, then it will lose that ground and the car will run terribly, if at all. I'm just about tapped-out on this one. If the ECM is bad, you have a rarity, but it can happen... Good luck.

[Wisconsinite]

When it rains (like this morning) water drips all over the electronics around the computer. I'm no expert, but I doubt water is good for it.

There is a good ground connection though.

I'm tempted to try an eBay/junkyard PCM. Or I could just throw in the towel and take it to a shop. I'm getting tired of wrestling with this car. With the help of you all, it is running much better, but I'm running out of ideas.

[Rettax3]

Sad to have to try at this point, but if you do go for a replacement ECM, it might be an opportunity to get one compatible with the engine that doesn't use that 'unique' temp sensor. AutoZone has a pretty good source for wiring-diagrams with pin-outs, in case wire positions changed at all. Just a thought.

[mkgearhead]

Not to hijack or anything, but my '93 Beretta 2.2 has the same 4 pin CTS and I'm having no luck finding one. If anyone comes up with a part number, let me know.

[Wisconsinite]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with that sensor!

As I said a few posts back, I was able to test mine on the car by checking the resistance between the pins that connect to the PCM. I checked it cold and hot, and the numbers were fairly close to the Chilton's chart. You could do the same, unless your sure it's bad.

Do you know where the other two wires go? I assume some sort of fan relay, but never confirmed it. Unless they are for the dash temp gauge..

[mkgearhead]

The plastic part where the plug clips on is broken on mine. Someone left it on the head when they had it rebuilt. My temp light is on and the gauge doesn't work.

[Wisconsinite]

Sounds like the other pins feed to gauge then

There are temp sensors with 4 pins available for other cars, but pinout and resistances could be different. The 2 pin replacement looked like it would fit.. You could install that connected to the PCM as a temporary measure.

Before I tested mine, I was about to call the local Chevy dealership. You'd think they would know all the parts on their cars.

But I'll post here if I hear anything. I need to find a junkyard with a beretta for the fuel pump wiring and computer. I'm definitely going to look at that sensor.

[mkgearhead]

I found one at the wrecking yard. The part number is 10137346 and it's discontinued. I got it from a '93 Corsica. It appears it may be a '93 only thing.

[mkgearhead]

Correction....part number 10137646. I even had my glasses on and got it wrong.

[Wisconsinite]

Nice, good to know.