Beretta.net

Update 4-12-11: Oil pressure fine until car has been warm for about 30min, then steadily reads less during stops as time goes on. Got an SES light again; car feels/sounds a little rough in OD. Loose spark plug tightened; set will be replaced soon. Oil leak pics pg3.

Update 3-30-11: Oil pressure not stable/normal for my car ever since oil change. See post below for info. Help appreciated.

Update 3-16-11: Water pump replaced (on the 13th). Coolant issues resolved. Next issue on the list looks to be the EGR valve. Also, hood release cable routing is stupid.

Ok, so I've had issues related to the coolant system since I've owned the car (7yrs). For anyone who doesn't know, it's a '94 3100. The cliff notes version is at the end.

The LIMG was replaced back in '06 or so (about 30k mi ago, roughly). The t-stat & gasket done last year or the year before. Coolant level sensor a couple times.

The current issue has been a slow leak. I'd lose maybe an inch worth of coolant from the tank every 1-2k mi. Back in october I had the rack replaced, and along with it they checked fluids & coolant level was reported fine; short story, I got lazy due to the cold weather and didn't check the level myself until a few weeks ago. There was barely any in the reservoir, so I topped it off. Couple ago I checked it & it was nearly empty. Coupled with this, my volt meter was periodically reading half, when normally it's always at the top, and the temp was getting to the 1/4 alot sooner than normal for a cold start. Also had SES light pop on when I hit a bump on Monday, no idea what for, and hasn't come on since. I took Will to work fine on tuesday. When I went to pick him up volt meter was at half on startup, so I waited a minute, then there was squealing for a few seconds, and then it stopped squealing and things sounded like they started spinning faster, and the volt meter climbed fairly quick to the normal point. I get maybe a mile away & it does all this again so I went back home & switched vehicles.

Yesterday I took a good look at my car. The reservoir looks empty again, so I dump in coolant. I notice that I don't see any coolant yet in the reservoir... watching the "full cold" line to know when to stop. I hold the light up against the tank, and it's very clear that the half with the "full cold" marking is completely empty, while the other half that has the level sensor & cap is full of coolant. I start examining the "crime scene" and notice the side of the radiator and nearby hoses have splash markings. I see the belt is wet, and tracing it up from the wet spot I see it's dripping from the water pump; 1-2 drips every second. This explains the sqealing & voltage issues, and of course the leak. What it doesn't explain (from my knowledge) is why only half of my reservoir is being utilized.

Today when we went to leave I checked the level again & still only half the tank is full, pump is still obviously dripping. We close the hood, I turn on the car, and Will says it looks like I have an exhaust leak. There's faint little wisps of smoke coming from under the hood up by the windshield; it smelled like burning rubber to me, not exhaust or any fluids. I popped the hood & really didn't notice anything. I looked under the car & see a steady (maybe 3mm wide) stream of coolant pouring down onto the floor from the water pump area (didn't have a hair tie so I wasn't about to take a peek at it from the engine bay & have my hair get caught in the belt).

Okay, so long story short, I know the water pump is leaking onto the belt, which is causing my coolant loss, squealing, and volt issue (belt slippage from being wet I assume, or perodic pump seizure?). What I really want to know is how the "reservoir half-and-half" deal is related, if at all. Is there a blockage somewhere? Does the tank need to be replaced? Is it just a result of the water pump?

there are small passages in that tank and they are obviously quite plugged... you need to pressure flush that side off the car, or just replace it.

I've tried cleaning these out before (swapped to a different tank with one bleeder nipple instead of 2), and you have to be careful with it to an extent... if you shake the crap out of it too much (to clean the buildup inside of it), you can dislodge the magnet that sits inside the tank. The magnet is used to activate the low coolant sensor.

Ask me how I know... lol

These tanks are a PITA. Mine had oil in it from a blown motor and it was pretty hard to get it clean. Just use some soap and a garden hose and flush it like 50 times.

I didn't get violent with the shaking lol. I just kept filling & sloshing the water around until it was consistently coming out clear without debris. There were a couple pieces of nearly dime sized rust that came out, along with several little ones.

Oh, and I made a nice mess since I thought the "out" from the tank was empty. Even holding a flashlight up to it, it didn't look like it normally does when there's coolant there. But sure enough, pull off the hose & it looked like about 2qt emptied out. Caught most of it with a pan before too much ran out. Next time I'll do the smart thing & just drain the radiator first, just in case. So now not only do I have to clean up the garage floor after, but I have to clean up whatever I can of the engine bay.

I think I may skip the full flush for now. It seems like a pain. The kit wants to be tied into one of the coolant lines from the firewall, and it requires a hose to push the water through. In these temps and with alot of snow still on the ground, that's not going to happen lol. I'd have to hook the tank back up, fill it again, and then drive my car like a snowplow across the lawn in 2ft of snow to get to the faucet (which is obviously hoseless in the winter). And all that prior to replacing the pump.

I'm just going to drain what I can the easy way so we can get the pump replaced & get the car back in working order again. I almost think replacing the belt is going to be the worst of it... between trying to get a jack (and 2x4) lined up under the oil pan, and my car being low to the point where you can barely even get a jack under it in most spots. >.<

heavywoody wrote:I've tried cleaning these out before (swapped to a different tank with one bleeder nipple instead of 2), and you have to be careful with it to an extent... if you shake the crap out of it too much (to clean the buildup inside of it), you can dislodge the magnet that sits inside the tank. The magnet is used to activate the low coolant sensor.

Ask me how I know... lol

You must not know your own strength... mighty ole Geoff... LOL

I was pretty rough with mine and It appeared to be ok when i was done.

Yeah Lisa, I didn't do that flush kit, I just used the flushing/cleaning solution... I ran that mixed with water in amys car for about 20-min or so then drained it and refilled it with water ran it for a while again drained it and refilled, and so on to get it all out of the heater core, then I filled it up with the Peak Global antifreeze.

He knows his own strength. He was just really excited... like a kid vioently shaking those fragile xmas gifts to find out what's in the box.

We drained about 7qt worth. Coolant that came out looked fine, so it should be fine. I let it run till it burped, and then a little bit after, before coming inside to thaw. Still needs an oil change. This oil has... oh... about 10k mi and 8mo on it. Normally I do it every 3k mi.

Couldn't even get the jack under the car without going over by the wheel to slide it under. Even then the jack couldn't get under the oil pan, let alone jack+board lol. I really wish I had just bought an engine hoist a couple years back like I had been tempted to do. It would have come in so handy for things like changing the belt. >.<

Yeah belt change on these motors sucks... damn design is stupid.

I have never used the oil pan to jack or support the engine before. The last time I changed the belt, I think I just used the bottom of the dogbone mount with the lip of the jack, worked fine. Sad part is, the engine never really drops that much anyway. But I agree, changing the belt is a major pain in the ass.

Hey Jon, remember when we scanned my car at your place? You said EGR, right? Right now I'm assuming that's 1/3 of my problems.

I'm still having some issues & haven't yet swapped the EGR or done the oil change. Just a quick list here. Did I ever mention how much I hate my car sometimes... can't get the hood open most of the time, I can barely get my fingertips under it & can't pull hard enough to lift it so I can reach the freaking lever.

1. Day after burping the car, the tank was nearly empty, so I filled it; low coolant light is still on
** I'll go out later to check the level again & tap the side of the tank in case it's stuck or something
2. Coolant temp seems to fluctuate too easily or diff than before my leak got worse
** I suppose it could be air, the fan, or I could just be crazy

1. SES light 3 times in the past week; x2 in D when slowing to 45, once in OD hitting a bump at 60mph
** Light stays on until car is turned off
2. Shortly after starting up from a stop earlier it smelled really rich for a minute & then normal again
3. While at a couple red lights it felt & sounded like a rough idle
** Didn't do it at every stop, only some, while at others it was perfectly fine

1. I periodically smell burning oil from inside the car
** Pretty sure this is just from the oil burning off on the exhaust manifold heat shield(?), and I have no idea how it gets on it... it ends up on top of the corner of it. I'd take a pic of the location if I could get the damn hood popped.
2. Oil itself smells burnt anyway since it's old
3. Gas mileage has dropped some, and RPM's are sitting a little higher
** Assuming thats due to old oil and/or EGR

This thurs/fri I'll dig out an old EGR, clean it up, grab a new gasket, and toss it on. I'm assuming the current SES light is tossing the same code as before. I have no way to actually check it. Shops all charge $70+ to scan, AZ doesn't have the right connector, and AAP (if they recovered their stolen scanner) probably doesn't have the right connector either.

I'll check my spark plugs too for good measure this weekend. Just to make sure there's not signs of other issues.

Just a thought here.

I used to get the EGR codes, but it was due to the tube going to the intake being plugged shut, blocking the effectiveness of the EGR, so eventually it threw a code. Most often when decelerating. This will be particularly correct if your EGR bowl looks anything like this:



Has the LIMG been done on this engine? Head gaskets?

EDIT:

NM, I see where the LIMG was done recently. Not that it couldn't have developed again in 30k, but it shouldn't have, unless the manifold was never tightened down fully or something.

EDIT2:

Did you get your water pump leak addressed yet? Having a leak is a pressure loss, which will also affect how the overall cooling system works.

Yea, we did the pump (with gasket) a couple days ago. I haven't noticed any dripping since. But since topping off the tank again yesterday, I haven't been able to get the hood open to check things again. Didn't see any active dripping under the car when I parked it earlier.

To clarify, did the pump sunday. Filled it up to full cold. On monday I let it run till it let out what seemed to be most/all air pockets (didn't check the level after). Later on monday I popped it open to check the level, topped off the tank again (was nearly empty), and that was it. Today was the first actual driving done since the pump was replaced.

Update: Finally got the hood open (release cable is shot, new one will be here friday) and was able to check the coolant level again. Was only a little low, light is still on so obviously the sensor must be stuck. Temp seemed much more stable today, so I think there was just still a bit of air in the system yesterday.

Anyone got any tips for keeping the release cable from fraying where it passes by the battery? My current cable (which was brand new like 4yr ago or so) I had routed slightly differently than the cable before. It still managed to rub against the edge of the battery & fray all the way through. Is there a different way to route it, or is this just a pitfall of having a battery with apparently sharp corners?

I cleaned up the old (working last I knew) EGR yesterday & will toss it on tomorrow. Hopefully that fixes one of my problems.

I'm having another issue here if anyone can shed some light on it. Ever since we did the oil change, my oil pressure gauge is erratic when slowing/stopped.

Cold start -> 60psi
Once warmed up (5mi or so) -> 40psi (only fluctuated by ~5psi between stopped & driving)
** Those two readings have been the norm since I've owned the car
Warm & stopped in D/OD -> 20psi (needle fluctuating erratically, jumps up to 40 when gas is touched)
Warm & stopped in Park -> 30-35psi (needle fairly steady)

It never used to drop below 35, it was always reliably at 40psi when warm, and 60psi when cold. The oil that was in there was my usual 5w-30 synthetic blend, had about 7-8k mi (and 9mo) on it. The oil I put in was the same stuff, just 10w-30 instead (which is what I normally run in the summer). Oil level was fine every day for a few days after the change, but I'll check it again tomorrow. I frequently find fresh oil on the exhaust heat shield (LF corner portion). Oil pressure sending unit? Oil pump? A leak causing pressure loss upon stopping/slowing?

Some days I just feel like my engine is dying a slow death. -_-

Actually... it's really just that my car always senses when inspection time is about to roll around, so it starts tossing up problems at the last minute. >.<

My oil pressure used to fluctuate when it was near time to change it, but that's all. It would shift 20 psi sometimes, like flick back and forth. I took it to be an electrical issue. Never did have a problem with it though.

In your case, could be a couple of things, most likely is a faulty oil filter, could be restricting your oil flow causing it to occasionally alter the pressures like that. I would get it replaced, they are cheap. Then top off your oil level and see where its at after that.

1. SES light 3 times in the past week; x2 in D when slowing to 45, once in OD hitting a bump at 60mph
** Light stays on until car is turned off
2. Shortly after starting up from a stop earlier it smelled really rich for a minute & then normal again
3. While at a couple red lights it felt & sounded like a rough idle
** Didn't do it at every stop, only some, while at others it was perfectly fine

My 3.1 was running similar, rough idle and rich, was fine while driving on the highway. SES light would come on when slowing down and stay on until shut off. had a friend scan it.. Of course it throws a EGR code because mine is not even hooked up and runs fine without it, AC pressure, and o2 sensor fail or short.

Lucky for me i dont pay a dime to have it scanned, my friend bought the scanned a yr or 2 ago, snap on. has every connector possible i think best investment for him to make lol so i can use it when ever i want.

$30.00 replaced my o2 which mine is a single wire, if you have the 3100 then its probably 4 wire. but this is what solved my problem. Runs great as always again.

The EGR could be related to your SES light coming on when slowing down but i would not think it would cause it to idle rough or change RPMs at all. i have an EGR on my manifold but has no wire going to it, just there to block the hole and make it look legit, my wire harness has a different plug so i have that ERG valve plugged in and sitting against the firewall to trick the ECM into thinking its there and working and to keep my SES light out.
The EGR only works when your at highway speeds or around there, it only opens at a certain RPM to re burn some exhaust gasses, it does not do a single thing at idle so even if it were plugged up, then should not effect the idle or running rich in anyway.

Recently got a 3400 upper intake manifold and the EGR passage way on it is practically plugged solid behind the throttle body where the port comes into the intake. just something to look at if you plan on cleaning it to pull the TB and make sure the port is clean.

The rpm jumping around and for sure the rough idle makes me think o2 sensor, exact same thing with my car it was idling all weird and flooding itself out sounded like it was cammed out, and it would even stall out sometimes, the worst part was it felt like it had no power at all and hold it to the floor and randomly it would kick in like it has nitrous on it and go like stink. then when slowing down and idling the problem came back.

Since o2 sensor change, no more problems and couldnt ask for it to run better...

Maybe............... your coolant leak from the pump spraying all over the wires could be soaked on the o2 sensor and cause it to possible get false readings now and again enough to give you problems, or check that none of the wires have touched something and burnt.