help me diagnose this moisture problem?

[Money pit Beretta]

Guess you missed the "me".
One is on the passenger side and just a drop(no more than three at the most). The other is the drivers side and it is bad. I have sealed the area where the wiring harness goes in twice, only to have it come back months later. I just have to work only on that and forget about everything else. With my vacuum leak and other bigger problems that is not going to happen for a long time.

[themadness]

missed the "me".......saw it just didnt register(been a long day)

do you just vac it out if it puddles on the driver's side or cover it with floor mats?

i did have a weird idea for the leak on the driver side that usually starts around the drain under the rubber flap. keep an open mind here.....

what if you made a "water slide" or gutter that sat right under the vent in the cowl where most of the water comes in. maybe pvc or some thin sheet metal. fold or shape it into a cone or tapered shape so that it went through the drain hole and out past the firewall maybe an inch(or however far out it can get) either way enough to divert the water so it doesnt get directly on the firewall or rotten sealant. it might or might not work, but if it did it sure would beat digging around trying to find a leak. worst it could do is slow any leaking until you could tear things apart to actually fix it.

[Rettax3]

I just bought my fifth Beretta a couple of weeks back -a yellow Indy. It is the first one to have the firewall-leak issue, and it is in the exact same place you are describing.

Remove the driver's side wiper-arm and cowling to access the wiper-motor drive-arm, pull the wiper-motor. This will give you all the room you could need to fix the problem. Then, cut the sound-deadener/under-dash insulation to access the other side of this seam.

Use whatever tools you need to scrape-away the old sealant -I used a cheap dental-pick, various screw-drivers, and a 3/4" wire-wheel on the end of a Dremel to clean mine perfectly down to the primer.

My car had better than a 1/8" gap in areas between the sheets of metal there -just crap IMO . I welded the $%!t out of mine and primered it, re-scraped/chipped any sealant damaged by the heat, and I am now sealing it up again with rigid silicon under either flexible silicon or possibly butyl-tape (this is the tar-like substance used on old car windows -it stays sticky and flexible for literally decades -a good example is 3M's "Windo-Weld Ribbon Sealer" -why can't they just spell 'window' correctly? ). I will then seal it again from the inside with epoxy and possibly more butyl-tape (available at most automotive stores). I might go cheap and use a household construction-grade sealer, but I loaned both my caulking-gun and tube of sealant to a friend who wanted to seal his truck-bed in a few joints, and I trust the butyl-tape to stay there permanently.

Just skip the welding part if you don't have the equipment, time, or desire to do so. For my car, it was a little more important to weld it up because of a couple of stress-cracks that I wanted to cure, but I would still recommend using a flexible roof-sealer, a construction-grade sealant, or the butyl-tape over just silicon, and definitely take the time to primer it first to help keep rust from forming under your chosen sealant. Top the whole thing off with decent paint of your color choice for aesthetics and to protect the sealant and primer. Good luck.

[themadness]

awesome thanks for the info on that. how do i pull the wiper motor/motor arm? i see two bolts on top of the motor nut thats. getting that off alone would probably give me space to take care of the firewall side.

[3X00-Modified]

Do you mean this drain hole?

[themadness]

think so....right behinf the wiper motor

[3X00-Modified]

This seam is important as well but is like 3 or 4 layers of sheet metal all meeting at the corner.



The other area that needs something is right on the corner of the cowl to direct the water toward the drain, IIRC though if it does leak on this seam it only comes out right above the bulkhead for the wiring harness, which also may be one of your leak points.



People don't realize that the wiper cowl steel part, where the wiper motor and blower motor is bolted to does not have a seam that enters the vehicle, its simply just a piece of steel spot welded to the firewall itself. The are's of concern are the brake master cylinder mounting plate since that is glued to the firewall, and then the main seam running down each side of the engine bay as well as where the firewall meets the floor pan.

[3X00-Modified]

remove your wiper motor and seal the seam that is for the brake master plate, and try to check your bulkhead connection since you said it's coming down near the fuse panel.

[woody90gtz]

It's easier to get to with the engine out. haha

[themadness]

what would be the harm in closing of the mesh on the cowl cover?

[Rettax3]

how do i pull the wiper motor/motor arm? i see two bolts on top of the motor nut thats. getting that off alone would probably give me space to take care of the firewall side.

Remove the driver's side wiper-arm and cowling to access the wiper-motor drive-arm, pull the wiper-motor. This will give you all the room you could need to fix the problem.

That pretty much explains it. Pulling the wiper-arm off can be a pain, but if your car still has the decorative cover over the nut at the base of the arm, pop it up and off, use a 13mm wrench or socket to loosen the nut (hold the wiper-arm from turning with the nut), then carefully pry the wiper arm up -they actually make a specialized puller to lift the wiper arm up since it is under spring pressure, this tool is commonly available at auto-parts stores as a loan-out tool. Once the wiper arm is off, pop the plastic push-pins holding the cowling down -you can try to save and reuse them if you are cheap -err, I mean 'economical', like me. Remove the nut on the end of the wiper-motor arm under the cowling with the same wrench, and then the three bolts holding the wiper motor to the firewall (these are accessible from the engine-bay side of it all. One of the bolts may be very difficult to remove, just get the other two and you should be able to pull the wiper motor up and off of the rubber bushing with the third bolt still holding it to the firewall) with a 10mm wrench or socket. Remember to unplug the two electrical connectors (I assume you have intermittent wipers -I've only ever seen one Beretta without them, a strange '89 Base with the 2.0 automatic, no A/C, cruise, or rear window defrost) going into the motor, it will be easier to remove them before loosening the motor-mounting bolts.

what would be the harm in closing of the mesh on the cowl cover?

I believe you would loose fresh air-flow into the heater and A/C system. You would certainly loose the pressurized free-flow at highway speeds, as the cowling takes high-pressure air off of the windshield to push air through the vents and into the car. I would wonder where the water would run from the windshield if it couldn't drain into the cowling then out the drain-flap at the bottom. Also, a small point, but engine-bay fumes can still migrate through any firewall leaks that remain unplugged. It sounds like you have enough of the car torn apart at this point that it would be easier to just fix these leaks than try to jury-rig around them.

[3X00-Modified]

what would be the harm in closing of the mesh on the cowl cover?

the cowl cover is not 100% sealed to the windshield either so it wouldn't do anything. Just reseal the seams and it will go away.

[themadness]

posting this as it might be a help to others......still digging for the leak on mine

http://www3.telus.net/midnight/corsica/corsica.html

[3X00-Modified]

I will say it again... the crack that he "sealed" in that website is not the one thats leaking, that seam is an external seam only..The seam of the firewall to the fender well is the one leaking, the rusty cracked area shown in his last photo.

If you look at that last photo, the first TOP most layer of steel you see is the cowl part that the wiper motor connects to, then the second layer of steel is the actual firewall to fender well, so you can see that the first seam is not the cause of the leak it will be the seam after that. The only reason why there is sealer on the inside of the cowl is to direct the water toward the drain and away from getting in that seam and causing rust. It does not physically fix or prevent a firewall leak.

[themadness]

those first pics of the inside firewall are definitely a prob. i pulled back the plastic cover as far as i could and that seam has about a 2 inch crack that water trickles around half way. if i can get that panel pulled down to get up there i will be sealing that side. judging by those pics in the link i will look at the wheel well area in the engine bay. i havent checked that out yet. i've only been looking under the cowl and below the drain hole.

any help getting the plastic away from the firewall in the floor would help. the only thing holding it down that i can see is bracket that holds a wire harness right below the steering column.

if nothing else my car and i are getting to know each other quite well. might take the time to shampoo the carpet and put some grease on the column boot while i have the seats out.