Throttle Position Sensor Woes

[ipanda7]

Okay, I've done some searching, found nothing that answered my specific question. But if it's there, please let me see it.
So, I'm trying to replace the throttle position sensor, but i want to know which is the easiest way to get access to the sensor. if i try to just unbolt it. I can't. There is a short can like cylinder that is hanging off a 90 degree bent pipe coming right over in front of the lower/side bolt for the tps. Please help me not this car.
Backgroud info. 1988 beretta base. 2.8. i've replaced the idle air control valve. no change. i haven't done any vacuum checks yet because i was just hoping to fix this with some easy wrenching. But the car surges when started up in the morning and has a high idle that can actually get up to 40-50 mph when left to it's own devices. somewhere near 2500 rpms. sometimes 3. then when i'm trying to stop the car. it feels like i'm pushing the gas while i'm pushing the brake. but once you get down to about 3-4 mph, the car will immediately stop and stutter for a few moments. you have to push down on the gas a bit to get it to move a bit, and then it will surge. very frustrating in traffic.
Once again, sorry if this is already a topic or if i'm just being stupid. Thanks very much.

[Money pit Beretta]

Yeah it really sounds like a TPS problem. For the life of me I can't remember how I got mine off my 90GT. I think I used a torx bit and a wrench the size of the bit. You would heve to keep the wrench lined up with fingers on the left hand and use one finger(or thumb) to push/hold the bit on the screw. The ft/lbs on the screw is like 7 or something close to that(I can look it up if needed), so it doesn't take much torque to break the screw loose.

[ipanda7]

oh, getting the bolt unscrewed won't be the problem. it's just the bent pipe that is getting in the way.

[Slinky]

Rather sure that bent pipe is the fuel rail.. Probably going to have to remove the throttle body or at least loosen the bolts in the throttle body to get the tps out..

[Koots]

I would just remove the TB. I have to do it on my 6.0L Vortec which is a friggin truck lol

It's a good time to clean the whole thing out too, even if it doesn't fix anything, it will help prevent the TB from being the issue in the future...at least for a few months anyway.

[themixer]

i removed the Throttle body when i did mine, just be easy on it and the gasket should be fine. great opportunity to clean out it out



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CPqbaSgcok

Here is a great video explaining how to check for vacuum leaks

[ipanda7]

Thanks for all the replies. Good advice all around. I ended up just taking off the throttle body. no big, just wanted to avoid it if possible. I did end up cleaning the crap out of it. used a soft plastic wire brush, put on the new sensor. still not fixed. i'll do a vacuum check later, if it's not fixed and there are no new other suggestions, i'll just have to drop it off at the shop and let it be someone else's problem.

Interesting story: As i was doing all this on the street(no garage) an elderly asian gentleman approached me in his pajamas....at 5 in the afternoon. He also spoke 10 words of english, but seemed interested in what I was doing. So i tried my best to explain, and as I was trying to get to the bolt on the tps, he decided i needed some help and proceeded to stick his hands all up in my engine where there was only enough room for one hand. So had to politely try to push him out of the way so i could get in there. Moments later I needed to get a tool from my car, after I came back....he was gone....like a fucking creepy pajama ninja. But it made me laugh, so that's all that counts...because the tps sure didn't work.

[Money pit Beretta]

You do know that pipe is the fuel line right?
Also did you oil the O-ring on the new TPS?

[Koots]

If it isn't the TPS, I don't want to just send you on a parts replacing adventure, but the IACV could also be your issue.

Just be thankful the IACV's aren't like on my old 97 Civic, if you've ever heard a Honda revving up and down at idle or in neutral, it's because of the stupid IACV's. I tried to buy a new one from the dealership and was quoted at $300CAD!!!! I went through 3 used ones and I finally got one that idled under 2000RPM but it still surged from 700RPM-1500RPM over and over again once at operating temperature.

One for my 6.0L silverado was $60 at NAPA lol.

[ipanda7]

Yeah, Slinky mentioned that. Would not oiling that up cause it to still idle high? If so, i can run out there and fix it. But i just slapped it in there to be honest. Yeah, i got cut-off on my parts adventure already. I've replaced the iacv, but i was honestly just going through some of the low budget items to rule those out first. don't want to pay a shop an arm and a leg just to clean my throttle body.
also, i remember the guy at the parts shop mentioned that on his 98 civic there was some cylinder that contained a spring that made his civic do the exact same thing.
(I'm gonna get my grade ten julien) reference for koots

[ifixalot]

We had a high idle like you describe in the daughters 90 Beretta. It turned out that the firewall leak had caused the pins on the ECM to become corroded and one half the IAC wasn't connecting so it would go high and stay there. I cleaned the pins with WD40 and a tooth brush and used a number drill on the female counter part. After cleaning and re-assembly it idled fine. It took me a couple days of trying everything before I checked out the ECM.
So if your carpet gets wet on the passenger side check out the ECM pins and look for greenish corrosion.

[ipanda7]

We had a high idle like you describe in the daughters 90 Beretta. It turned out that the firewall leak had caused the pins on the ECM to become corroded and one half the IAC wasn't connecting so it would go high and stay there. I cleaned the pins with WD40 and a tooth brush and used a number drill on the female counter part. After cleaning and re-assembly it idled fine. It took me a couple days of trying everything before I checked out the ECM.
So if your carpet gets wet on the passenger side check out the ECM pins and look for greenish corrosion.

Wow, ....I never even thought about that....I'll give it a shot this weekend. Thanks for the good info.

[Koots]

Yeah, Slinky mentioned that. Would not oiling that up cause it to still idle high? If so, i can run out there and fix it. But i just slapped it in there to be honest. Yeah, i got cut-off on my parts adventure already. I've replaced the iacv, but i was honestly just going through some of the low budget items to rule those out first. don't want to pay a shop an arm and a leg just to clean my throttle body.

I usually lubricate IACV's and EGR pintles with an actual lubricant/penetrating oil, not like WD-40. Nothing too thin, nothing too heavy. I always liked PB Blaster but can't find any around here, so I use this low-budget brand stuff called M80, which is almost as good.

also, i remember the guy at the parts shop mentioned that on his 98 civic there was some cylinder that contained a spring that made his civic do the exact same thing.
(I'm gonna get my grade ten julien) reference for koots

Yeah, he's talking about the same thing. A very common ailment on a lot of Honda's from the late-80's to early 2000's.

"If I can't smoke and swear, I'm fucked"

[Money pit Beretta]

Oil on the O-ring makes it expand some for a better seal. Engine oil is what I use for O-rings on sensors. The point is to keep the dirt and dust out of the bearing in the throttle body. If you look at how the bearing is held in the TB you tell that it would be a huge pain to replace(and make it stay put).