January 2010 Project Begins (Raspberry)

[Barry]

since he does not like how much thread I have sticking up, and if he gets a better length set for my application he said he would help me out price wise on that.

WORD

[3X00-Modified]

MPB, thats what they were trying to tell me, but 1 they werent that far down, there were still 3-4 threads under where the nut stopped, AND 2 since they are an undercut bolt, you can thread the nut fully down past the end of the threads, they won't/can't bottom out.

I've gone away from the better length thing and it sounds like he's just going to get me another set of what I had. I assumed Ben has been down this road before and got what he got because thats what they made... and nothing else fit any better, otherwise he would probably have it.

So yeah I'll be using the same set, but hopefully he'll get me a good price on them.

[3X00-Modified]

Just got off the phone with ARP, I had the chance of getting just the short bolts for about $40, or a full set of both bolts with new nuts and washers for $140. Guess what I did.

[Money pit Beretta]

That's cool man. I still don't see the change in clamping force between the two. Oh well, it's no big deal.

[3X00-Modified]

change in clamping force between what? Stock bolts and ARP studs?

[Money pit Beretta]

No the short and long studs.

[3X00-Modified]

There isn't.... On the cylinder heads one side needs to be shorter bolts than the other.

He simply wanted to at first get a better fitting set so I didn't have as much extra stud sticking out the top of the nut, But I don't think he realized I have full thread engagement when torqued, AND that they probably dont make a stud the length I need to accomplish what he wanted to do... I'm assuming if there was a better fit, it would have been found by someone already.

Now when they were trying to blame that on the issue I had, they were trying to say I ran out of thread and the nut did not torque to the head but instead torqued to the end of the threads, But with an undercut bolt that is not possible, you can thread the nut all the way onto the undercut shaft and it wont bottom out.


I got the same set of bolts that Ben currently sells, just for 140 and not 200

[IsaacHayes]

Ahh. I get now what "undercut" is. For a while there I was thinking WTF is undercut. I never knew the term for that... lol

[Money pit Beretta]

Sure... that must be why the head gaskets blew(as if they did). The old shell game? Trying to avoid the real problem. Throwing the dog a T bone so they can rob the house. I don't like this 3X00, but if your ok with it I'll shut up. Makes me mad though.

[3X00-Modified]

They never stated the head gaskets blew.

The answers I got from them simply come down to, condensation got in the heads somehow, Not sure, might have been right where the washer was if it wasn't a PERFECT seal... And when that happens then YES these bolts will rust. Black Oxide is not put on there to prevent rust, and the molly lube is not there to prevent rust.

You just need to remember I ran this motor with those studs through ONE winter in my daily car, and that was parked outside all day every day, and this also lived in the pink car outside until Dec of 08 before it got a garage. So from April 07 to December of 08 that setup had a rough life that could have EASILY exposed it to condensation issues which would result in rusting.

They gave me a good discount on the bolts and I'll have a new full set coming my way. I'll just be a little more aware of the possible rust issues and coat the bolt shafts with some high temp paint, And I will also put a thin layer of sealant on the washers to hopefully prevent anything getting in below those. The mating area where those are is not the flattest part of the heads.

No where in any description of these bolts does it say they will not rust. So I can't really hold that against them. And I'm lucky I got what I did from them. He was also a little bit on the uninformed side when it came to the installation fit, and what could be happening, but when you come across someone who is piecing together a kit to fit on an application they never tested, You can't blame him for questioning the fit.

My biggest issue now is the crap thats going on with Cometic copying 3900 head gaskets and not 3400/3500 ones when making them for the 3400 and 3500, so the embossing for the firing ring overlaps a coolant port, and all the lower cooant passes they have on the gasket are all blocked.

So now those are no good to me, so I'm either stuck waiting for them to fix this issue or I say F-it and ask Ben for a refund and just go back to OEM GM gaskets. I'm not going to build it with OEM ones and then swap back, because that will mean I need to get the heads resufaced AGAIN! I'm almost getting to the point where I may need another set of heads if I keep trying to do work to these. They have been resufaced twice now... at least after I get them back. I'm not sure how much is removed though when doing that on a aluminum head.

[3X00-Modified]

Ahh. I get now what "undercut" is. For a while there I was thinking WTF is undercut. I never knew the term for that... lol

Yes, Undercut, shaft is the same/smaller as the MIN nut Diameter.

[Money pit Beretta]

Hope you don't have to get shorter push rods.

[3X00-Modified]

They have only been surfaced, not shaved.. so it shouldn't be that much, and there should still be enough spring travel left in the hydraulic lifter to take that change up.

Here is my custom made engine to trans stand... I can rotate it sideways to straight up and down... Now I can start working on the trans since I'm stuck waiting for head-gaskets.

[woody90gtz]

That's a genius little trans stand. I like it. Would look better with a 282 on it though.

[3X00-Modified]

It was very simple to make, Cut the mounting plate off the round tube, and then put a 2" id square stock perpendicular to that going to the plate to rotate it 90* so now the trans can be rotated and the load is relatively equally spread out. SO MUCH nicer than trying to support this on two saw horses... I think this run through and re-assembly will go VERY smooth.

All I had was a 110v welder too... Holy hell I think this has the worst welds in my life on it... LOL I did find out that the gas pressure was too high though, and once lowering that it got much better, but since I was on the limit of the thickness the welder can support it was difficult to get it very hot... I shoulda used a torch to get it cherry then welded.